Pagan influences in Christian Chronology

[Sekhmet]

Few would believe but the pagan influences of the ancient/Classical world exist in our current and traditional understanding of Biblical Chronology and history.  It is time to expose these pagan influences to the populaces of the 21st century.  Few are the sideline armchair scholars that would dare to read the very scholarly work of William Adler in his Time Immemorial, Archaic History and Its Sources in Christian Chronology from Julius Africanus to George Syncellus published in 1989 by Dumbarton Oaks.  What many readers of this tremendous title pick up is the name of Julius Africanus, failing to notice that it contains the words Archaic History and Its Sources in Christian Chronology.

This is sad, for if this phase received the attention it should the reader might be interested in what Archaic History and Sources existed prior to the Father of Christian Chronology AKA Julius Africanus.  Here they would learn that there was a well-established chronology developed by none other than pagans that existed prior to and during the time of Christ my Lord.

At the time of Christ, the most influential chronology was an updated chronology by the great Roman historian Marcus Terentio Varro 116-27 BCE.  He had in effect validated the earlier historical chronology of the Greek historian Eratosthemes 275-195 BCE.  His chronology started at the rather late date of 776 BCE, the documented date of Greeces’ first Olympiad.  Eratosthemes concluded that due to the poor record keeping of earlier Greek states it was impossible to document any history securely prior to the 776 date.  Varro agreed and by the time of Christ, this was the chronology of preference.

Earlier chronologies such as the Septuagint, Manetho, and Berossus all date shortly after the divided kingdom of Alexander the Great.  The Septuagint and Manetho owed their existence to the Ptolomies’ of Egypt, while Berossus came from the Seleucids of Asia Minor.  Unfortunately, by this time it was a world influenced by Aristotle who held the Asian world in the lowest of consideration (Hatzfeld 1966: 261 ).  Therefore these more complete and ancient histories of our humanities earliest days fell into disuse.  The Romans came along, like Varro valuing the Greek culture and thinking, and dismissed the older histories of the Asian nations as unrealistic and exaggerated.

Then the father of Christian Chronology, certainly, the father of millennialism, Julius Africanus (ca. 235 CE) came along.  Professor Adler goes into depth about the uneasiness our early church elders held the surviving Asian pagan ancient works.  The Jewish historian Josephus, of the 1st century CE saved parts of the works of Manetho and Berossus.  The need however, to prove the ancientness of Jewish and thusly Christianity outweighed the pagan origin of the Asian histories allowing Africanus’ chronology to placed creation into the year 5499 BCE further back than any other work of its time.  His theory of millennialism established the Christian doctrine that the total earth history would be limited to a mere 6000 years.  Africanus believed as other early church elders that they were living in the End Times and he dated its conclusion to about the year 501.

Meanwhile, other church elders were developing a newer scriptural text than the Septuagint that Christ himself had used.  These texts came to be known as the Hebrew Texts and they differed from the Septuagint in that they shortened out of respect for the Greek/Roman dominate thought of a short history of humanity, the time from creation to the time of their origin by nearly 1500 years.  It was these Hebrew Texts, which the 4th century church scholar Jerome the future saint, used to create his own chronology.  Because of the shorter period between creation and his current day, his chronology put the End Times some 1500 years into the future.  He did maintaining Africanus’ total 6000-year Earth history.

Even today, we hold that the Romans and Greeks had a great culture still worthy of respect.  Slowly due to archaeology, we are learning that their cultures evolved from the more ancient Asian cultures they despised.  While Jeromes’ 1500 years of future times slowly disappeared their formation based on the Greek and Roman belief of a short history of humanities origins did not disappeared as did Jupiter, Isis, and other surviving pagan cults did in the face of the Christian Church growth and power.

By the time of King James of England and Scotland there came another Christian chronology based upon the work of the Archbishop of Armagh of Ireland the great Biblical scholar James Ussher.  His work placed the ultimate Christian End Time in 1996.  It did not come others later dated it to 2000 and 2004.

All the End Times predicated have come and gone leaving us to wonder when and if we understood His meaning of it.  Regardless our traditional chronology of Biblical and Earth history is based upon pagan thought, not Christian. 

Is it not time we obey Christ and place the new wine into new bags?  Archaeology is the new bag, and it is providing us with an understanding of just how old humanity really is in just its first 200 years of existence.  Shake loose that old chronology based upon pagan belief of a short history of humanity and look forward to what archaeology is providing for us. 

We do this we can let the rocks, and stones of the truly ancient cultures stand perhaps even place them into their correct time period.  Ramesses II did not help in taking the works of his elders and putting his name upon them. 

I would highly recommend everyone interested in the origin of our traditional Christian Chronology to obtain a copy of Professor Adlers’ book.  Lending libraries can most likely obtain a copy of this most important book, if you cannot find it for your own.  I am blessed I own a copy of it and it is a highly valued book of mine.  Mainly because it exposes the pagan, base of our Christian Chronology and mocks the work of archaeologists working so hard to align both physical history with our Bible.

[Sekhmet]

Out of nine views no rebuttals... Thanks be to the Lord my God.  His will be done not mine.  LOL  Perhaps you all are looking and hoping to read my source before opening the trap.  God bless you all.

[Elijah]

I dare state rebuttal... but its only 5%. Namely yes from pagan, but no it is not a bad thing. God takes what is unclean and makes it clean with spirit and truth. He does this by those willing to spill their own blood to speak out truth. I agree sources are  pagan. But to me a person like Abram who knew of astronomy being a Chaldean, the concept of pagan merely means worship the stars rather than follow the geneology. We have proven in 6000 years that people will spred geneology thousands of years unless calendar dates of stars keeps them close together. Further, although Ussher, and Adventists all seek to claim the 6000 years of bible geneology is chronological, they do so without stars, without calendars, without dates. They ignore the very scripture of Moses which says God created the stars and planets and moon and sun and all the orbits so we can keep track of time and seasons. Is it the fool who thinks this means for next year's birthday, or this week's pay day, or your scheduled vacation! Apparently so since we build NYC knowing New York earthquakes occur every 150 years. Apparently so when we know the Missouri River shifted 100 years ago and we still dyke it up. Where are we using or caring about any real accurate time scale. Shem in 1919 BC as (Jehovah's mouth) sent his two messengers to Sodom with a prediction of earthquake volcanic explosion to the deepest land fault of the planet after his personal experience of 450 years since the Flood. But as for us, if we fail at 200 years and 2000 years, what proof is it anyone is correct about 2 million years.

The year 5500 BC comes from 700 BC Hindu who used 1200-year Venus to claim 4800 years back to Adam because 6000 years is 1200 years forward to 500 AD. They based this on the belief that the Amizaduga tablets (correctly 1625 BC) were from IbbiSin in 1900 BC. They interpreted this as 3600 after Adam and 2400 to the End. As pagan (using Venus) they denied the chronology of preFlood as neither 1656 nor 2256 years. Because Venus was Noah's year 1200, and so they claimed the 2 years of Flood 600 and 601 were 1200 years before 1901 BC (as Hindu Flood 3102-3101 BC).
So here the Hindu beleive Adam's year 3600 is Noah's year 1200 from the  Flood. (Noah in flesh is Man-Nu; and Noah in spirit is V-ish-Nu).
The Maya reveal the correct ratio. They count 3744 from Flood because 2256+3744 = 6000. And they make a king in 630 AD at Palenque. The true year 2256 from Adam is also the Noah's year 1200 but from birth as 600 before Flood and 600 after Flood. The Venus formula was discovered and created with only 600 postFlood years calculated as 365 days each and atoning 2 days per 40 years is a correction of one 30-day month (a correction of 60 days in 1200 Egyptian years of 365 days). Use an astronomy program as I did and you will see it is amazingly true. There is no 584-day Venus as Babylon and Maya use. As 583.92 days it is 60 days less in 1200x 365 days (750x 584 days). This 60 days is two constellations, two months, which can make a person pick a wrong year centuries earlier.

Instead the Venus tablets are 1625 BC as 2400 from Adam and 3600 to an End expected in 1975 AD (not 500 AD).
The Greeks however used Babylon chronology who in 747 BC claimed year 3192 was not 834 BC but was the original Marduk temple in 2009 BC for a 5200 BC Adam. In this way when Ur was destroyed in 1900 BC, they do not see Babylon as 300 years (1894-1594 BC) but rather as 6-7 years earlier as 1901-1601 or 1900-1600 BC. And so the year 3600 of Adam for Venus was regarded as 1600 BC instead of 1900 BC. This is when the Catholic Church realized it had an uprise problem in 800 AD if they dont create a king on Dec 25 (The Reich). But 1000 years of kingdom and Napoleon became that uprise problem in 1899. He became the 2nd Reich.

What is pagan should not be merged with truth, but it can asist by revealing the truth that the pagan had been twisted from. And it does that. In this way all the pagans who God brings back to life in a postArmageddon resurrection back to flesh will reconstruct our truth of 6000 years of chronology. I am not here to reconstruct it for you. I am just here to show that you all sin because we can reconstruct it NOW, the evidence has NOT been totally destroyed NOR lost; man is guilty of ignoring the evidence. This is why i  psted the Venus dates of Fotheringham and recalculated for the correct dates of Sewell that i cannot find. That you may know that 1st dynasty Babylon believed an asteroid should be looked for after 1975, the year 6000. When these people you call pagans are resurrected back to life in flesh, they will get sickened at hearing you say we came from monkey evolution not Adam, and they will be angry that you say they didnt beleive in Adam, that their symbolic words of animals for logging astronomy was a worship believing the world was created by these animal gods. The error of the ancients was war, and false science, not worship, just as today they were back then. And Abram was against the planets being represented by king Shulgi's idols (Dungi idols), and that is why the word dung is used to this day since king Dungi.

[Sekhmet]

I dare state rebuttal... but its only 5%.
I agree sources are  pagan. But to me a person like Abram who knew of astronomy being a Chaldean, the concept of pagan merely means worship the stars rather than follow the geneology.

Hi Elijah, you do know alot and so I will not be overwhelemed I will just deal with the above quoted bit.

The Chaldeans were first mentioned according to my sources about 878 BCE so how then could Abraham have been a Chaldean by any timeline?  They recieved their name from, Ashur-nasir-pal II- my sweetie.  LOL   Peoples of the Past Babylonians-Saggs pg.133.

2) Geneology was important to almost all civilizations in Japan the Emperor can trace his back to the Sun.  In Rome of 33 BCE it was important to Patricians such as Gauis Julius Caesar who claimed he could trace his back Venus and Mars.  In my own family we can trace our generations back in one case to the 1600's Switzerland, in another to 900's Northern Italy, still another branch to the Norman invasion in the 1066 with William.  So what I say.

To me pagan is one who denies the power, glory, and promises of God, and the salvation of Christ his Son.  It is my belief that this would have been what Abram would have considered as a pagan as Chaldeans were not even around during his day.
 
You have a nice day.

PS why Ashur-nasir-PUL, is my sweetie.  When i am attacked by unbelievers about the cruelty of God against Canaanites.  I use a copy of one of his Texts in rebuttal.  LOL I do not not hear about Gods' cruelty again.   

[Brianroy]

"LOL Perhaps you all are looking and hoping to read my source before opening the trap. "

"The Chaldeans were first mentioned according to my sources about 878 BCE so how then could Abraham have been a Chaldean by any timeline?  They recieved their name from, Ashur-nasir-pal II- my sweetie."  LOL

"Ashur-nasir-PUL, is my sweetie."    


"You might try addressing me as I have introduced myself to this forum this would be polite "   …

{I.e., as Sekhmet, NOT as Patricia - "of an admirably high quality; notably superior; excellent."  Not? Okay.  Oh well!}

"…discuss archaeology, and the Bible"

{In other words... discuss "history" and the Bible}

Curious quotes from one who demands to be called as Sekhmet. Why?

I find it curious on the insistance / use of the being sealed (as in sphragizo) with the name of an Egyptian/Theban idol and then labeling themselves under another title. 

Why is this pseudonym  so important? Let's look at it from a historical point of view.

Who or what was Sekhmet? 

Sekhmet, for the benefit of those who haven’t yet checked, was  "The   female cat / lioness idol goddess of the Temple of Mut."  The primary characteristics of that  idol, in history,  is associated with violence and blood lust followed by a state of  extreme drunkenness.

Curious.  As in - "Arousing interest because of novelty or strangeness" curious.

Interesting general information about the idol Sekhmet can be gleaned in these three links below.

Egypt: Bast the Cat Goddess


That Air of Expectation, Still and Assured

Sekhmet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

   

If we look back in history to the characteristics placed upon this idol and worship of this Sekhmet, I personally, am of a mind to think that it is quite "telling" as to what the author wishes to publicly express about themselves by the use of Sekhmet as a pseudonym.

Elsewhere she identifies herself with the beliefs of Mormonism, by stating that Jesus visited "Early America", or words to this effect.  Oh, boy. 

 I am not currently aware of how  the Mormon's "officially" view the name Sekhmet offhand.  Perhaps, that Mormon "view" is what she has in mind by the use of Sekhmet. 


I think that the quote:

The Chaldeans were first mentioned according to my sources about 878 BCE so how then could Abraham have been a Chaldean

should suffice. 

878 B.C.?   


   As the Jews say: "Oi!"   

[Elijah]

Moses who predicted plagues in 1514 BC and if you doubt this i suggest you note that the Exodus is regarded as Sothic (such as July 1322 BC or 1313 BC), but that its true recorded Sothic nature was in reference to cycle from the Flood (such as Roman/Chinese Flood year 2953 BC is 1440 x 365 days and 1460x 360 days to plagues of 1514 BC and 1440 Julian to 1513 BC as exodus = 1461x 360 days.... and this is ONLY ONE example of two cultures Sothic concept of Flood to Exodus. There are many more.)
Next he leads exodus in 1513 BC which is confused with many other exodus, that of Ur and Ararat to Memphis in 2030 BC and misdated as 2321 BC. That exodus from Ur to India in 1900 BC and confused with exodus from Babylon to India in 1625 BC. The exodus to get away from Hamurabi in 1792 BC. The exodus of Jacob and Syria to flee Hamurabi in 1761 BC. That from Egypt fleeing slavery in 1600 BC out into the world, many to India causing some to move to China. Records of many exodus are between Shemite and Hamite and so they get confused. Noah gest creidt or blame for his despising Ham laughing at what little Canaan did to him in his tent. You should read the conquest because all the attacks on Canaanites relied on measures of only if natural events favored the Jews... example if the unmortared stones of Jericho fell from 7 days of sound vibration. Example, if the people in the value got confused from the echo of shattering water jugs. The intent was to show that God approved by asisting in natural ways proving that the Jews knew the physics of God's laws best in the world. Contrast this to the world beleiving it is king of kings, they have always used fire (fire power, guns, canons, catapults of fire, atomic bombs as fire from heaven). In the end the fire comes from an asteroid impact preventing global nuclear, and the oceans come back up to wipe it clean.

Now that 1513 BC is wordily presented, it is Moses who writes Genesis in 1512 BC that Abram came from Ur of Chaldea, and so to say there is no mention of Chaldea until 878 BC is not truth. You have a bible saying Chaldea so where are your eyes. Or you are saying Genesis was written in 878 BC. This is no woman of God who would say this.
Chaldea (astronomy) was founded with a house when Peleg Mesanipda built it in 2239 BC at the birth of his son Reu Aanipada. He did so to flee the arguing (simple war without killling) at Babel over the sun being center or Earth being center, orbits as a day or a year. The new year rise of Mars (every 13 years x 360 days) is 2240 BC Nov 18 Julian. And this one marks Babel because it is 130 calendar years (in 128 years). 13x 10 years is 10x 13 years. This confuses Babel as Chaldea who (as the name Cainan) is given 130 years. Cainan refers to the fall of Chaldea not the rise of Chaldea. But this confusion comes from Cainan being the rise of fallen Chaldea, the transfer from Shemetic to Akkadian in power. Ur III fell in 1900 BC and Babylon rose in 1894 BC. Ibbi Sin founded Isan's throne in 2017 BC before he became Lead King of Ur in 1925 BC. The fall of IbbiSin in 1900 BC is mistaken as the fall of Ur 1 king Balulu in 2029 BC because of this throning of Isan in 2017 BC.
The 130 years of Cainan is thus also confused because it is 130 years from fall of Ur I in 2030 BC to fall of Ur III in 1900 BC. These two years argued as fall of Ur III (IbbiSin). Ur III is regarded as introducing idols to Chaldea with king Shulgi. And the whole dynasty is (?) (i think) accused of kissing up to Akkad. Meanwhile it is also 130 years from fall of Ur until the death of 500-year old Narmer in Egypt (Nimrod) during Hamurabi where upon Hamurabi boasts his replacing the greatness of Nimrod in the four corners.
This is confused with UrNammu who in the year of the Marduk calendar (52-year Mars as 4x 13 years is 90 degrees from season to season) in 2009 BC ruling 18 years to 1991 BC. Ur Nammu claimed the four corners in this year of Marduk which later becomes falsely claimed as the death of Nimrod.
Year 3192 is Adam 4025 BC to 834 BC, not ADam 5200 BC to 2009 BC.
And Nimrod dies in Adam's year 2256 not in 3192, and 2256 is not the Flood but is 600 years after the Flood marked as Venus in Noah's year 1200 which is not 1200 from Flood but 600 before and 600 after. In other words astronomy (Chaldea) gets blamed for confusion and so the stars become banned to interpret for anything. Yes we lose time and seasons and calendar because we curse the whole topic merely because of those who have corrupted it. One example is the witches (Wiccas = Which- cha)
five point pentagram and pentacle which is a perfect Venus calculator, ignored as Satanic because of what others use it for. It is like saying we must quit using brooms because witches like to ride them to get high... sexually flying away on them. But it is alos like saying we should not use God's name because we are sinners. The name Jehovah was created to help us understand it means cause and effect, that God is what his physical laws prove him to be. Its a guide or rule to see if we are doing what we should or what we should not. So all thsi goes back to Chaldea as confusion and corrupting what was good. The word Sin also comes from Chaldea. Sin or to err or fall short is from the name of the moon in calculating why it is 29 days not 30. In calculating why the moon is 25 years (x365 days = 9125 days) instead of (309x 29.5 days =) 9115 days.
Su En is also en Su which means Lord Su. And it is not a coincidence that the first king of Ur named after Sin (AmarPal is Amar Sin) began rule in 1943 BC when Abram at 75 deserted Ur by pulling out what he wanted over to his other residence he had owned for 48 years in Harran leaving behind what he didnt want. This year, the last of (AmarSin's father) Shulgi was the 1st year of 12th dynasty confused by Egypt as 1991 BC the 1st year of Shulgi because Abram moved to Harran at 27 to build a second home to care for the family of his dead brother Haran (his nephew Lot being 39 and 12 years older than him).

Chaldea thus fell in 1900 BC and it is then named as Canaan. It is the same year that Shelah the son of Arpaxad who Moses of 1512 BC calls the FATHER of CHALDEA. Again Chaldea is being mentioned by Moses in 1512 BC not your 878 BC as having existed and fallen. Shelah died at 433 in 1900 BC and the people of Ur fled to India where 1200 years later they claim in 700 BC that Venus of 1900 BC is the tablets they carry. Not true, the tablets came from their relatives who fled Babylon's Amizaduga in 1625 BC and came to India. Fotheringham calculates 1900 BC and Sewell calculates 1625 BC. I have posted the Venus dates.
The disgusting thing is that the influence of Akkad over Ur III (2009-1900 BC) was destroyed by Ararat (Hitites) and then the land taken over by Babylon 6-7 years later in 1894 BC. Shemetic Chaldea thus became Akkadian Chaldea. And this is why the 130 years of disgust until Nimrod died in 1770 BC (Adam's year 2256 which altered all chronology by Babylon and Greeks from 776-747 BC). This is why it is important to note that 747 BC markes the Sothic 1460 years of 2207 BC as 177-year Ur which fell in 2030 BC from Serug's birth to Peleg's death, and that it marks a Saturnalia of the planet Saturn in Leo and crossing Regulus. Its the bad kingship awaiting the good true kingship that rules the way Shem Melchizedek ruled by example only and not by giving orders or forcing law.
By ignoring the true origin of Chaldea we ignore our heritage right to a proper rule that Jesus brings. This is why the few people inside the WatchTower who take the communion of bread and wine are innocent and rule by example only. They are not the Judas who is also in the WatchTower trying to control as Judas tried to control the money and perfume of Jesus. But rather their example is free from the blame and trash you see on the internet. In short, I as Elijah John expect them to take that ear of the soldier and put it back on and heal it so that the world sees that it was Peter with the sword who (anonymously) cut the man's ear off. Yet without sword he had no tongue to defend Jesus but tucked tail and hid and ran 3 times. Should we credit him for being the only one to tag along and see how the trial went in killing Jesus. This scenerio is about to repeat this year. It is what i have predicted. I perceived though that Osama Bin Laden would first wipe out world trade (dollar) because he is a likely candidate for the Barabbas who gets set free when my Lord the Lamb (who is Lamb's wife) gets slaughtered again. My scenerio that i perceived as spanning one year gets crunched in a faster wipeout of the world as the months of this prediction lessen andlessen to the next Passover. So I wait on the cause and effect (YHWH) to do it. But my faith is in my words and mind only certanly not my actions. As always i prove to desert God as if things are failing for me, because no matter how awed i get at what i discovered as chronology, i keep saying okay then God when will this be of value. Everyone tells me it means nothing, that i am just trying to exalt myself. You tell me! (thats rhetorical, i dont want you to tell me, i'll have to rebutt it hehehe)

[Sekhmet]

"LOL Perhaps you all are looking and hoping to read my source before opening the trap. "

"The Chaldeans were first mentioned according to my sources about 878 BCE so how then could Abraham have been a Chaldean by any timeline?  They recieved their name from, Ashur-nasir-pal II- my sweetie."  LOL

"Ashur-nasir-PUL, is my sweetie."    


"You might try addressing me as I have introduced myself to this forum this would be polite "   …

{I.e., as Sekhmet, NOT as Patricia - "of an admirably high quality; notably superior; excellent."  Not? Okay.  Oh well!}

"…discuss archaeology, and the Bible"

{In other words... discuss "history" and the Bible}

Curious quotes from one who demands to be called as Sekhmet. Why?

I find it curious on the insistance / use of the being sealed (as in sphragizo) with the name of an Egyptian/Theban idol and then labeling themselves under another title. 

Why is this pseudonym  so important? Let's look at it from a historical point of view.

Who or what was Sekhmet? 

Sekhmet, for the benefit of those who haven’t yet checked, was  "The   female cat / lioness idol goddess of the Temple of Mut."  The primary characteristics of that  idol, in history,  is associated with violence and blood lust followed by a state of  extreme drunkenness.

Curious.  As in - "Arousing interest because of novelty or strangeness" curious.

Interesting general information about the idol Sekhmet can be gleaned in these three links below.

Egypt: Bast the Cat Goddess


That Air of Expectation, Still and Assured

Sekhmet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

   

If we look back in history to the characteristics placed upon this idol and worship of this Sekhmet, I personally, am of a mind to think that it is quite "telling" as to what the author wishes to publicly express about themselves by the use of Sekhmet as a pseudonym.

Elsewhere she identifies herself with the beliefs of Mormonism, by stating that Jesus visited "Early America", or words to this effect.  Oh, boy. 

 I am not currently aware of how  the Mormon's "officially" view the name Sekhmet offhand.  Perhaps, that Mormon "view" is what she has in mind by the use of Sekhmet. 


I think that the quote:

The Chaldeans were first mentioned according to my sources about 878 BCE so how then could Abraham have been a Chaldean

should suffice. 

878 B.C.?   


   As the Jews say: "Oi!"   

I like your reading ability your comprehension is not much better, your editing ability is so poor my 2 year old grandson could do better blind folded. 

You have not address a single post but a mishmash of them.  I rejoice that I will not have to face the Lord God over such work on such an important board.  I will not explain my reason for preferring Sekhmet over my given name except to say therer really is little difference and as an retiring nurse it fits. 
Your sources by the way are not the best I have ever seen so this accounts for your lack of true knowledge as well. 

Mormons are not an ancient Protestant religion mine is; your little newbie cult is an offshoot of mine (God forgive my elders for kicking yours out).
LOL you guess wrong again 20 questions.  You are not real smart are you.  Those with brains that work you can only attack and belittle.  OKay I am by either name bigger than you little 20 questions man.

I see you didn't supply why Ashur-nasir-Pul is my sweetie, did the reading get to hard?  I am sorry educated people can use language as a trap with so much ease!  I use his boasts to quiet those that accuse God my Lord with cruelty. Man can be so much more cruel than God and I win. 

HAHAHA goose if you can not read or comprehen what I have written in on a post read only as much as you can little 20 questions man.  Then return later when you have recovered.

You are not a well man, I see it in your demands, WHO ARE YOU TO DEMAND ANYTHING OF ME i am woman yes but you are no relation to me, therefore YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS OVER ME.  You are a mean nasty little man who thinks he knows more than he really does.  Save the side show act for the circus.  Again I've better things to do.

May the Lord of Mercy Christ Jesus (little 20 questions man thinks the beginning is a Muslim phase) have mercy on You, again you are forgiven but I keep my word.  Insulting a woman you have no control over but some Pauline verse that is of his choice not a command from the Lord is not going to get you very far with this woman.

Nor am I aware that 1800's was Early American?  To this old American The 1700's is Early.  You really have not read the writings of my ancestors in the Early years of our nation that allows Freedom of Religion?  My my, your edcuation is lacking is it not.  Mormon LOL  If you only knew LOL  If your attitude, smuggmishness, confidence, and love of praise from your cultelts was not so great there might be hope.  As it stands little 20 questions man is to repent.  Ever been on your high and mighty knees little 20 questions man?

Please provide a source other than Genesis 15 of the Chaldeans prior to the 9th century BCE.  Or shut up! 

[Elijah]

Genesis 11:28 Ur the city Of Chaldea
Genesis 11:31 Ur the city of Chaldea

UR built 2239 BC
preFlood 360-day calendar declared error in 2233 BC
1st dynasty Ur rules 177 years 2207-2030 BC
2nd dynasty kings do not rule, their body of kings (elders)
sets up no king over them. However, Ibbi-Sin is one of four
who sets up Ishbi-erra as king of Isan in 2019/2017 BC
in the year of Abram's birth 2018 BC.
3rd dynasty Ur rules 108 years 2009-1900 BC
when Shelah the son of Arpaxad dies in 1900 BC at 433.
This is original Shemetic Chaldea, controlled by Akkad
during 3rd dynasty, and then Babylon rose up in 1894 BC
to claim itself Akkad (Chaldea). The name Chaldea signifies
exalting oneself as an astronomer of the stars, knowing heaven
and so knowing God. To reach the heavens is not so much a
thing of height as it is in how high your knowledge grasps
and they presumed the stars are the greatest knowledge to know
as if smaller things to kill us are less threat than the stars.

Remember the fable about who was stronger the sun or the wind.
And the big bully wind only caused the man to hold his coat tighter,
but the sun sweated the man up so he took it off. Well this really
teaches a business ploy of force or subtle persuasion. BUT the
same is of astronomy. Is weather a greater natural threat since
it is more frequent than sun problems or star problems like asteroids.
You cannot measure your star or sun when the clouds of weather cover them up. Yet many times you can climb a mountain knowing the
mountain is always above those clouds. Take a drive up Maui
and you will see on a cloudy day you go thru the clouds like
a fog and you come up into the sunshine or stars.
People never really put any puzzle together. Their heart is set on
ripping things apart that can be explained properly.

(Hey like that South Park episode about conventions speaking
to dead spirits and it was all game playing with words while
people stupidly refused to see it. The Bible gives an example,
two apostles raised a dead man and the Greeks then insisted
they were two Greek gods. No winning with the stubborn.
And so they then tried to kill the two apostles for denying they
were gods.

[Sekhmet]

Genesis 11:28 Ur the city Of Chaldea
Genesis 11:31 Ur the city of Chaldea

UR built 2239 BC
preFlood 360-day calendar declared error in 2233 BC
1st dynasty Ur rules 177 years 2207-2030 BC
2nd dynasty kings do not rule, their body of kings (elders)
sets up no king over them. However, Ibbi-Sin is one of four
who sets up Ishbi-erra as king of Isan in 2019/2017 BC
in the year of Abram's birth 2018 BC.
3rd dynasty Ur rules 108 years 2009-1900 BC
when Shelah the son of Arpaxad dies in 1900 BC at 433.
This is original Shemetic Chaldea, controlled by Akkad
during 3rd dynasty, and then Babylon rose up in 1894 BC
to claim itself Akkad (Chaldea). The name Chaldea signifies
exalting oneself as an astronomer of the stars, knowing heaven
and so knowing God. To reach the heavens is not so much a
thing of height as it is in how high your knowledge grasps
and they presumed the stars are the greatest knowledge to know
as if smaller things to kill us are less threat than the stars.



(Hey like that South Park episode about conventions speaking
to dead spirits and it was all game playing with words while
people stupidly refused to see it. The Bible gives an example,
two apostles raised a dead man and the Greeks then insisted
they were two Greek gods. No winning with the stubborn.
And so they then tried to kill the two apostles for denying they
were gods.

I laugh Elijah, who beat me at the trap.  Okay for little 20 questions man name one source other than Genesis regarding the Chaldeans. LOL

And you dear Elijah please name your source from other than scripture.

I do not watch South Park, if I am not reading or working I watch what is edifing- history, science, and good action adventure.  My younger son knowing me as a son does his mother.  Brought on his last visit a DVD of South Park, he sought to outrage me with it.  It upset him that i laughed when supposed to and the foul passed over me as if Christ stood in front of me.  When it was over I told him that I had enjoyed it and thanked him for sharing it.  I meant it as well, as Christ is my Lord, Elijah I am victorious more often than not.  The beauty of having Christ as head instead of some mortal?

Have a nice day to you and yours.

[Sekhmet]

While I agree that the following posts belong here if not in the trash.  I do believe placing the primary post here is wrong IMHO.  Dominating spoil sports achieved their aim in having an important post removed from where it belonged.

[Jen C.]

Merry Meet, Sekhmet!

While I actually found a few morsels of interesting information in your original post, I was disappointed that many of your responses to individuals who disagreed with your view were immature.  By belittling the intelligence level of those individuals, you degrade yourself.

Additionally, your use of the word "pagan" is incorrect.  It is true that in modern times the word denotes those who do not follow mainstream, namely Christian, religions, and refers primarily to those who choose to walk an Earth-based path. 

However, a "pagan", as the word was originally used by the Romans when spreading their Christian faith, simply meant a "country-dweller".  This is because the residents of the major cities were converted much sooner than those who lived outside the city limits.  Thus, the country-dwellers continued to practice the Old Religion, considered by some to be "heathen practices".

Another thing that bothers me, is that your overall tone suggests an "holier-than-thou" attitude.  I've found, in my personal experience, that many Christians, of various dominations, tend to adopt this mentalitiy when interacting with people who do not believe just as they do, or worship in the same manner.  This is offensive in the extreme.  You weren't even addressing me, and I was offended by the way your comments were phrased.

And the last thing I want to touch on is your use of the name "Sekhmet" to identify yourself.  I understand that she was the patron of physicians and healers.  What I don't understand is why such a die-hard, self-proclaimed Christian (I'm assuming this is the case, from your many references to "Christ") would adopt the Pagan (as the word is used today) practice of taking on the name of a deity? 

Typically, when a Pagan (again, as the word is used today) takes the name of a deity, it is because they feel a deep affinity to that deity, and have initiated into the service of that deity, dedicating their life and work to that deity.  Based on the fact fact that you are obviously a Christian, I wasn't sure if you were aware of the implications of taking the name of a deity as your own.  This is a serious undertaking, and you should not do so lightly, or on a whim, just because you work(ed) in the healing profession.

Goddess Blessings, and Merry Part!

[Sekhmet]

Pagan is the word I used.  I felt it most correctly defined the educated non-Christian Roman controlled world; of the first couple of centuries of our Common Era, where the errors in Post-Christ chronologies originate.  Pagan is a much shorter term than Roman era educated non-Christian.  That it offends modern day Neo-Pagans, Wiccians, I am sorry, however we equally share the heritage claims to the non-Christian educated Romans of the Roman Empire.  Our education should place us on their level, and exceed it.

The voices that have attempted to accuse me of anti-pagan feelings do so based only on my use of the word Pagan, and their understanding of my religious beliefs (something I rarely discuss on this archaeological board.) 

I want to ask these ancient Roman Era pagan defenders.  Should I have used idolaters, heathens, savages, or Christ haters?  Jen C wanted me to understand that to her- pagan means rustic folks of the later Christian early era; okay, ma’am understood.  That understanding is not general, news to me, in no way meets what I needed it to mean for the post and is disputed by authorities.  Provide me with a politically correct word that I can use, or educate yourselves.  That not all first, second, third, fourth century Roman controlled non-Christians were rustic, poor country folk persecuted by the early Christians.  The old adage of not throwing stones if you live in a glass house applies to you, as well as me.

From the website:  Religious Tolerance   http://www.religioustolerance.org/paganism.htm

Pagan

Origin of the term:

There is general agreement that the word "Pagan" comes from the Latin word "paganus." Unfortunately, there is no consensus on the precise meaning of the word in the fifth century CE and before. There are three main interpretations.  None has won general acceptance:

1. Most modern Pagan sources interpret the word to have meant "rustic,"  "hick," or "country bumpkin" -- a pejorative term. The implication was that Christians used the term to ridicule country folk who tenaciously held on to what the Christians considered old-fashioned, outmoded Pagan beliefs. Those in the country were much slower in adopting the new religion of Christianity than were the city folks. They still followed the Greek state religion, Roman state religion, Mithraism, various mystery religions, etc., long after those in urban areas had converted.
2. Some believe that in the early Roman Empire, "paganus" came to mean "civilian" as opposed to "military." Christians often called themselves "miles Christi" (Soldiers of Christ). The non-Christians became "pagani" -- non-soldiers or civilians. No denigration would be implied.
3. C. Mohrmann suggests that the general meaning was any "outsider," -- a neutral term -- and that the other meanings, "civilian" and "hick," were merely specialized uses of the term.

By the third century CE, its meaning evolved to include all non-Christians. Eventually, it became an evil term that implied the possibility of Satan worship. The latter two meanings are still in widespread use today.
There is no generally accepted, single, current definition for the word "Pagan."
[End Quote]


To all  )O( a early internet symbol of Wiccian blessing.  To diehard fundamentalist Christians, I beg you to remember our Lord:  He did not reject the Samarian woman at the well, and in accepting her, saved her, and those many in her town.

[turanclancath]

 Tempora Mutantur.
In the course of time a word can change into another meaning.

The same word can in another time , place , society or culture get another meaning
We are in the world of semiothics then.

So the word  Paganus   like many other words changed meaning in the flow of time and culture.
I give some other examples and will give some links at the end  of the posting.

I.In origin Pagus and derivates like paganus/  belong to the Roman administrative system
(See the link for France .)
Provincia,Civitas,Pagus,Vicus.( i leave out the Oppidum, Municipium ,Colonia etc )
In a pagus could be many small towns !! so called Vici.

II.Indeed in due time Pagus/Paganus got an more rustic meaning and then with Christian authors it got another meaning .

III.In the aera  of the Crusades Christian authors even called incorrectly Muslims  Pagans !

IV.And nowdays the word Pagan and Neo Pagan has another extra meaning .

With the word Villain/vilein you can see  the same changing of meaning.
( see the link ).
In origin in the Roman world   a worker  at the great rural  Villae( centers of the Latifundia .

Then in the middle ages it got another meaning   a unfree peasant  and then got a very negative connotation  Villain =Scoundrel etc .Persisting today

The same proces as we see with Paganus.
The greek word Barbaros a same negative development.

But the   most real wonderfull  example   in change  is  the latin word Miles.
In origin a soldier.
Around 1000  a very low class of fighters employed by the Feudal nobility were called Milites.
Knights !!!
It were cuttroats  used in the many wars around 1000 by nobles and their noble vassals.

(By the way the word Vassus  becoming a Vassal  had the same change from low to high esteemed between 500 and 1000).

It was a great insult to call a Noble Miles ( knight  they were rabble ).
No noble thought in the 11 century to become a Miles ( Knight )

But voila because of the crusades, self promoting ( in litterature and poetry ) and other causes  the
Miles/Knight did rise in esteem in the 12 century  and became a true Noble knight and theNobility  became also Knight it got an enormous social prestige to be a knight.

 With Minstrels, Arthurian romances etc you can see the upgrading in this case of the word Miles.

In conclusion
A word can in course of time and culture etc change its meaning.

So Noble Lady Sekhmet is absolutely corret in pointig out that there is not 1 meaning/interpretation of the word Pagan( see here posting )

The link for France Civitas  Pagus etc

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fr-prov.html

the link for Villain

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=villain&searchmode=none


and also

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=p&p=1






Turanclancath

[Elijah]

I dont beleive the country dweller definition. Based on Jew versus Gentile and Greek versus Barbarian, if there were Roman versus Pagan it meant nonRoman by religion. Gentile means nonJew who who does not worship the Jewish God and thus other gods of other nations. Gentile doesn not mean a country dwelling Jew, it refers to the other nations outside, not the other Jews outside.

So too barbarian doesnt just mean nonGreek. It means we Greeks are right and you the world are wrong, and these are opur Greek gods because you are barbarians who have no god because you have other gods, the wrong gods. In fact that's the irony of the word. British began to conquer the world and call them barbarians when in fact it is a Greek word and the Greeks regarded ancient Brit as barbaric, without god, with wrong gods and uncivil.

If you wish to say that uncivil merely means not in the city then you are ignoring that city life was regarded as being schooled and knowing the gods. It is equated as the same, city versus countryside, schooled versus unschooled, educated versus noneducated, knowing the gods versus not knowing.

So without me knwing whta pagan means, this person has just pointed out enough evidence to fall right in place with evolving society to prove that the word pagan was a Roman concept long before it was supposedly Christianized. Again it seems clear that pagan means nonRoman. It means veryone else in the world is wrong and has the wrong gods and so as pagan they are not of the proper family or nation or people to be in the right. In this sense, the Romans no doubt regarded Christians as among all the pagan every and all the times those Romans killed Christians. Thus by claiming Christianity as being the state religion, they pulled it out of the pagan world to be their world which is not pagan because pagan i sthe outside world.

Yes thats a good definition, Gentile is the outside world in the wrong, and Barbaric is the outside world in the wrong, and pagan is the outside world in the wrong. And the difference between those words is which culture is the inside world and the rest are all the outside world... Jew or Greek or Roman. So by claiming that pagan was a good word of just someone in the country, to me that is like saying the original word incest just meant love of family. Moses said beware of the one who says, isnt it true God said you cant eat of any trees at all or any fruit at all or you will die. (Genesis)

And yes there are pagan influences, Jesus is give a death at age 30 to match 30 years of the planet Saturn while others say no Saturn is a demon-goat, it is years to symbolize 30 days of moon. But Jesus didnt die at 30. I will admit that the derogatory nature of the word is intended to make hate at perspectives that can be corrected. It is pagan only after its been twisted wrong. We all came from the same father Noah, so turning pagan is a choice of how to regard things wrong. If it's false science it is pagan. The Jews stressed clean and unclean, while outsiders made unclean things look as clean. We have that today. Women put the piss of baby diapers on their face saying it is clean and good. Yet urine is naturally expelled as waste, and upon the ground. We argue how to clean things. Milk is cleaned with ultra-violet light, and Peter dreamed Quit calling unclean the things God has cleansed; revealing things unclean can be cleaned. But then that's another story where people say yes it was cleaned by a prayer.
Sounds pagan to me.