regarding the temple, the rapture, my death

[Elijah]

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.jehovahs-witn/browse_thread/thread/8949eff731ba7092?hl=en#

[notalent]

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.jehovahs-witn/browse_thread/thread/8949eff731ba7092?hl=en#

After none of that comes true, what then?

[Elijah]

Russell died on All Saints Day the calendar new year 944 of 940-year old Noah in 2031 BC intended to claim man will die and be taken to heaven to rule its restoration. Babylon began rule on All Souls Day of 1894 BC the calendar new year 1083 of Noah's year 1076 (476 years after the Flood) in the claim they were restoring life, economy, prosperity, by resurrecting human society to an honor and glory of what THEY claimed as truth.

Russell is the first to be resurrected directly to heaven in a twinkling of an eye. This because on that day, the Halloween of 1916 about 129,000 humans including the 12 apostles awoke in heaven while Jesus had been the only human ever risen there, and that in 3 days. The WatchTower thinks this resurrection started 3.5 years after 1914 when they were released from prison in 1918, as if to resurrected as a company on earth matched the same time as that to heaven. By the way, so many knock this WatchTower stuff and yet the Adventists hold a whole timeline of their Church doing things to match every Bible number since 1844 and 1874 and down to today. You do not see their self-prophecies intended to gather THEIR church being slammed by the world (as long as they don't do it at your doors). But even Mormons get less abuse than the WatchTower, depsite the fact it is well known that church butts its nose into personal lives as much as the WatchTower does.... in fact I think most churches put their major issues on people.

But Russell was Elijah gathering the bride as John had. The difference is that Russell could not be the last Elijah if he goes to heaven. He must be replaced by someone who does not go to heaven, just like John the baptizer. That one is me. If this be the case, then Russell had to be the last of something, and the first of something. Last of all those to be sleep awaiting heaven (129,000), but first of all those who change instantly at death to awake in heaven as if not to die at all (the 15,000 gathered as last-day saints). For this reason, my death is possible this Saturday on the mere premise it is a sign that I am Russell, as we both were also Elijah. I hope this not the case, but upon asking a man at Wendy's saturday whether he would break his daughter out of prison during a panic of asteroid impact, I confessed to him I was crazy, went to Los Angeles with intent of raising Michael Jackson. But fear ruled me. Not embarrassment for me, but the embarassment I would cause for those at the funeral. And the man said he worked the cemetary and had a stiff laid out I could come try.... but he had to run to see his daughter in prison 2 hours away. So Saturday morn is Halloween and I will go to Wendy's to see if he is there. Since the dead don't get up and walk away... I have heard evangelicists claim so, but yet to really know it, I could go to jail if one does walk, and they want this worker /this man to explain where the body went to. Vivid imagination I have... yeh, I talked to God since childhood. Perhaps I am truly nuts. Sure is easier than being inside Noah's ark and refusing to come down. Cheaper too.

[notalent]

But Russell was Elijah gathering the bride as John had. The difference is that Russell could not be the last Elijah if he goes to heaven.

Were there any indications of his authenticity, other than his own say-so?

I mean, reading some of those old Watchtowers doesn't exactly put confidence in their assertions.  Some pretty embarrassing stuff there.

He must be replaced by someone who does not go to heaven, just like John the baptizer. That one is me. If this be the case, then Russell had to be the last of something, and the first of something. Last of all those to be sleep awaiting heaven (129,000), but first of all those who change instantly at death to awake in heaven as if not to die at all (the 15,000 gathered as last-day saints). For this reason, my death is possible this Saturday on the mere premise it is a sign that I am Russell, as we both were also Elijah.

I hope this not the case,

This prediction is practically a guarantee of life everlasting.  Like the Syrian artillery, the safest place is to be the target, for they will hit everything except that.

but upon asking a man at Wendy's saturday whether he would break his daughter out of prison during a panic of asteroid impact, I confessed to him I was crazy, went to Los Angeles with intent of raising Michael Jackson. But fear ruled me. Not embarrassment for me, but the embarassment I would cause for those at the funeral. And the man said he worked the cemetary and had a stiff laid out I could come try.... but he had to run to see his daughter in prison 2 hours away. So Saturday morn is Halloween and I will go to Wendy's to see if he is there. Since the dead don't get up and walk away... I have heard evangelicists claim so, but yet to really know it, I could go to jail if one does walk, and they want this worker /this man to explain where the body went to. Vivid imagination I have... yeh, I talked to God since childhood. Perhaps I am truly nuts. Sure is easier than being inside Noah's ark and refusing to come down. Cheaper too.

I've always said that the one thing a prophet needs is a sign of his authority.  You did poor Michael a disservice by neglecting to raise him.  So go now and prove your authority by raising a dead person.  They at the very least will thank you.

[Elijah]

Russell isnt the only one with pyramid theories, there are so many atheists who thrive on them today. Nor was Russell the only one to believe in literal human resurrection other than 4000 years of people claiming humans have come back as spirits to talk to them.

I would gladly die to give one person life who has already died. And you mock it the way Halloween now mocks instead of honors that truth of hope. When you get your wish, you will not believe it. Because you wish is a mock.

[notalent]

Russell isnt the only one with pyramid theories, there are so many atheists who thrive on them today. Nor was Russell the only one to believe in resurrection other than 4000 years of people claiming humans have come back as spirits to talk to them

I'm not talking about pyramid theories.  I'm talking about early Watchtower output, like discouraging surgical solutions to appendicitis and praying black people white.  There is a similarity of being afflicted with erroneous "scientific" observations.  Basically, sitting on a rock, thinking, and drawing conclusions considered to have the same weight as scientific fact, and thus the "Voice of God". 

Scripture doesn't seem to be deemed sufficient, despite its claim to the contrary.  So there is a continual reaching outside of it, with all too predictable results.

I would gladly die to give one person life who has already died. And you mock it the way Halloween now mocks instead of honors that truth of hope. When you get your wish, you will not believe it. Because you wish is a mock.

Well, I don't see any scriptural requirement that one must die to resuscitate the dead.  Prophets and Apostles alike did so without peril.  As to mocking,  I think throwing down the rainbow covenant, and dancing upon it, is a much more serious issue.

[Elijah]

I don't defend error. I proclaim that first conclusions in any science are more often error than not. Jacob Israel created Darwinism in attempting to put spots on sheep, but he dumped that theory in 1761 BC. Shall we slam what he knew at his death in 1711 BC because of what he once thought?

I have not trampled on any rainbow covenant. I have gloriously defined it. Just as the fact that the kingdom of God Jehovah will never be destroyed nor would ever be destroyed encouraged people to leave Jerusalem which WOULD BE DESTROYED by Babylon and then by Rome. I and the prophets are one, we do not declare God's covenant broken. We define it so the people live. How many times must I repeat what is said here. Do you not listen?

[notalent]

I don't defend error. I proclaim that first conclusions in any science are more often error than not. Jacob Israel created Darwinism in attempting to put spots on sheep, but he dumped that theory in 1761 BC. Shall we slam what he knew at his death in 1771 BC because of what he once thought?

I suspect that everyone is missing something valid about Jacob's strategy.  Seems to me he was using camouflage rather artfully to somehow improve birthrates to his advantage.  No superstition at all, just clever manipulation of the environment.

So I reject your assumptions, and conclusions.

I have not trampled on any rainbow covenant. I have gloriously defined it. Just as the fact that the kingdom of God Jehovah will never be destroyed nor would ever be destroyed encouraged people to leave Jerusalem which WOULD BE DESTROYED by Babylon and then by Rome. I and the prophets are one, we do not declare God's covenant broken. We define it so the people live. How many times must I repeat what is said here. Do you not listen?

Yes, you said most everyone will be destroyed by a global flood, with only a few saved, just like the first flood.   But it's plain from scripture that God is not sailing anywhere close to that ever again.   Revelation mentions no such apocalyptic event, nor Daniel nor Ezekiel.  It's absent from scripture.  The rainbow covenant forbids it.

[Elijah]

Corrected my typo 1711 BC.

Camouflage?  Scripture states youre wrong. Yes I see where you may be headed. The fence of spotted stakes being a camouflage so that wolves do not get his sheep.... ok, but this implies he allowed the wolves to get Laban's sheep. Instead it specifically says so they would see these spots while eating as if that will grow spots in their wool.

Further he says to Laban upon ditching out, you know Laban that I have not lost one sheep ever, not yours not mine from any mishap or wolf or injury.

So your camouflage doesn't make sense as if he was protecting his sheep and not Laban's. The agreement was that solid wool colors are valuable, so Laban would get all solid and Jacob would get all spotted. An amateur might think that if breeding spotted with spotted makes spotted, that solid with solid will make solid. But not so, breeding black solid with white solid might produce balck and white spotted, not solid ones. On the other hand the trait of solid is genetic, because i had a solid black rabbit that i bred with a calico, and her 8 babies were all solid color, one of each color in the calico male.

Point is that Jacob was wrong and realized that Jehovah will be what Jehovah will be. And that if we percieve Jehovah wrong, then Jehovah will show us. I am not blind, I do see that you feel that Jehovah will show me thru YOU. But you are not willing to think the outcome could be that YOU get shown Jehovah thru me. Don't get a puffed head now and think this is about me as a know it all or that you're being accused as such. But you seem to be the typical person who is easily peeved by the thought that anyone knows God.
Or the typical atitude I would know him before you would.

[notalent]

Corrected my typo 1711 BC.

Camouflage?  Scripture states youre wrong. Yes I see where you may be headed. The fence of spotted stakes being a camouflage so that wolves do not get his sheep.... ok, but this implies he allowed the wolves to get Laban's sheep. Instead it specifically says so they would see these spots while eating as if that will grow spots in their wool.

Further he says to Laban upon ditching out, you know Laban that I have not lost one sheep ever, not yours not mine from any mishap or wolf or injury.

So your camouflage doesn't make sense as if he was protecting his sheep and not Laban's.

11.  Thou shalt never assume.

I said nothing about wolves.  The passage says nothing about "as if".  You are making up stuff.  I'm not making anything up, except to give Jacob a lot more credit than everyone else it seems.  I don't know exactly how the camouflage worked.  I don't pretend to know.  But I know Jacob was an astute observer of people and presumably, animals as well.  No dummy, he.

The agreement was that solid wool colors are valuable, so Laban would get all solid and Jacob would get all spotted.

There is no mention of what is considered valuable in the passage.  This is where people get into trouble and error, by making unwarranted assumptions or jumping to conclusions.

An amateur might think that if breeding spotted with spotted makes spotted, that solid with solid will make solid. But not so, breeding black solid with white solid might produce balck and white spotted, not solid ones. On the other hand the trait of solid is genetic, because i had a solid black rabbit that i bred with a calico, and her 8 babies were all solid color, one of each color in the calico male.

Point is that Jacob was wrong and realized that Jehovah will be what Jehovah will be.

There is no indication that Jacob was wrong anywhere in the passage regarding spotted animals.  On the contrary, the passage declares that he was wildly successful.

And that if we percieve Jehovah wrong, then Jehovah will show us. I am not blind, I do see that you feel that Jehovah will show me thru YOU.

More assumptions on your part.  I don't think Jehovah, much less anyone else, can show anyone anything that they don't want to know.  Exodus proves that.

But you are not willing to think the outcome could be that YOU get shown Jehovah thru me. Don't get a puffed head now and think this is about me as a know it all or that you're being accused as such. But you seem to be the typical person who is easily peeved by the thought that anyone knows God.Or the typical atitude I would know him before you would.

The Bible teaches that to know God, one must first know his mind, which is scripture.  Giving false prophesies is one clear sign given in scripture that someone doesn't know God.  It's really just that simple.  It's not complicated.  I'm not threatened by false prophesies or anything of the sort.  For me, our discussions serve but one selfish purpose, the satisfaction of a morbid curiosity.  I harbor no illusions about changing your mind.

[Elijah]

Genesis Chapter 30
32 ...Let me go through all your flocks today and remove from them every speckled or spotted sheep, every dark-colored lamb and every spotted or speckled goat. They will be my wages. 33 And my honesty will testify for me in the future, whenever you check on the wages you have paid me. Any goat in my possession that is not speckled or spotted, or any lamb that is not dark-colored, will be considered stolen."

 34 "Agreed," said Laban. "Let it be as you have said." 35 That same day he removed all the male goats that were streaked or spotted, and all the speckled or spotted female goats (all that had white on them) and all the dark-colored lambs, and he placed them in the care of his sons. 36 Then he put a three-day journey between himself and Jacob, while Jacob continued to tend the rest of Laban's flocks.

 37 Jacob, however, took fresh-cut branches from poplar, almond and plane trees and made white stripes on them by peeling the bark and exposing the white inner wood of the branches. 38 Then he placed the peeled branches in all the watering troughs, so that they would be directly in front of the flocks when they came to drink. When the flocks were in heat and came to drink, 39 they mated in front of the branches. And they bore young that were streaked or speckled or spotted. 40 Jacob set apart the young of the flock by themselves, but made the rest face the streaked and dark-colored animals that belonged to Laban. Thus he made separate flocks for himself and did not put them with Laban's animals. 41 Whenever the stronger females were in heat, Jacob would place the branches in the troughs in front of the animals so they would mate near the branches, 42 but if the animals were weak, he would not place them there. So the weak animals went to Laban and the strong ones to Jacob. 43 In this way the man grew exceedingly prosperous and came to own large flocks,

41 And it came to pass, whenever the stronger livestock conceived, that Jacob placed the rods before the eyes of the livestock in the gutters, that they might conceive among the rods.

I AM LOCKING THIS TOPIC BECAUSE YOU SAY I AM MAKING IT UP THAT JCAOB THOUGHT THE BRANCHES WOULD CREATE SPOTS ON THE SHEEP

I consider any man a total fool who considers that placing spotted branches in front of sheep to make spotted offspring or to get spotted sheep to breed is WILDLY SUCCESSFUL IN SUCH PROCESS. Jacob then had dreams in chapter 31 that it was God not his branches that made them spotted.