Questionable King List

[Sekhmet]

Ashur-nasir-pal I (person) - Biography Research Guide
Ashur-nasir-pal I
Ashurnasirpal I was king of Assyria from 1050 BCE to 1031 BCE. Ashurnasirpal ruled during a troubled period of Assyrian history, marked by famine and war with nomads from the deserts to the west.

Shalmaneser II (person) - Biography Research Guide
Shalmaneser II
Shalmaneser II was King of Assyria from 1031 BC to 1019 BC. He succeeded his father, Ashurnasirpal I and was succeeded by his son, Ashur-nirari IV, but beyond this little is known of his reign.

Ashurnasirpal II (political figure) - Biography Research Guide
Ashurnasirpal II
Ashur-nasir-pal II (transliteration Ashshur-nâ?ir-apli, meaning "Ashur is guardian of the heir"[1]) was king of Assyria from 884 BC-859 BC.

Shalmaneser III (political figure) - Biography Research Guide
Shalmaneser III
Shalmaneser III (Šulm?nu-ašar?du, "the god Shulmanu is pre-eminent") was king of Assyria (859 BC-824 BC), and son of the previous ruler, Ashurnasirpal II.


Interesting, we have a repeating pattern of succession first dating to the 11th century BCE Assyria then to the 9th dynasty.  Generally, historically, and traditionally the latter Ashurnasirpal II, and his son Shalmaneser III are considered to be the Biblical Era Assyrian Kings.  However, while not mentioned in scripture by name, we find the “first” mention of Israelite Kings Ahab and Jehu in their surviving work.  This is the main reason why nihilists cease their negation of scripture in the ninth century B.C. 

I wonder did Ashurnasirpal II call himself the second?  Did his son, call himself the third?  Are the numbering a much later addition, by redactors to keep them straight?  I understand that while Charles, the Prince of Wales when he becomes King will be numbered the 3rd by that name.  I wonder will he be called “Charles, the third” all the time?

Oh, oh I am thinking again!  Anyone, want to pitch in with their thoughts on this?  Please feel free to do so.

[Sekhmet]

The new ones

Shalmaneser I and Shalmaneser V


   Shalmaneser I Research | Find Shalmaneser I Articles | Encyclopedia.com: FREE Online Dictionary, Encyclopedia, Articles  And Pictures!



From: The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | Date: 2008 | The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. Copyright 2008 Columbia University Press.

Shalmaneser I , d. 1290 BC, king of Assyria. He restored the temple at Assur, established a royal residence at Nineveh, and removed the capital from Assur to Calah, c.18 mi (29 km) S of Nineveh.

Shalmaneser III, 859-824 BC, son of Ashurnasirpal, claimed to have defeated (c.854 BC) Benhadad and Ahab , king of Israel, at Karkar (Kirharaseth) on the Orontes. His victory was probably indecisive, since he failed to reach Damascus or fight his other enemies. He received presents from Jehu of Judah. The black obelisk ...obelisk normally an Egyptian work of art of Shalmaneser III, found at Calah and now in the British Museum, pictures Jehu prostrate before the king and is believed to be the only surviving picture of an Israelite king. Shalmaneser was defeated by the Chaldaeans in Armenia. In Calah he built an enormous ziggurat.

Shalmaneser V, d. 722 BC, succeeded Tiglath-pileser IV (728 BC). According to the Book of Second Kings, he attacked Hosea, king of Israel, and besieged Israel's capital, Samaria, but died during the siege. Sargon II finally destroyed Samaria.


I am currently re-reading Mesopotamia and the Bible, Comparative Explorations  Edited by Amrk W. Chavalas and K. Lawson Younger, Jr.
with extra attention to Chapter 2 by Steven W. Holloway... The Quest for Sargon, Pul and Tiglath-Pileser in the Nineteenth Century... I cannot begin to say what a debt I owe the author.

   

[turanclancath]

The History Files


Good morning ( in some hours  ) for you Lady Sekhmet.
Here is a very very handy BBC link about Mesopotamia with kings lists etc etc.

and this 1 is also very handy

chronicles persons kingslists etc etc

Babylonia


and a great site about the black obelisk  a lot of information and translation etc

The Black Obelisk (Biblical Archaeology, Bible History Online)


by the way the story about Achab en the battle of Quarquar is on another obelisk of Salmaneser:
   the so called Kurkh monollith
Assins

Kurkh Monolith of Shalmaneser III 853 BCE

COS 2.113A, pp. 263-264

I approached the city of Qarqar.  I razed, destroyed and burned the city of Qarqar , his royal city.  1,200 chariots, 1,200 cavalry, and 20,000 troops of Hadad-ezer of Damascus; 700 chariots, 700 cavalry, 10,000 troops of Irhuleni, the Hamathite;  2,000 chariots, and 10,000 troops of Ahab, the Israelite; 500 troops of Byblos; 1,000 troops of Egypt; 10 chariots and 10,000 troops of the land of Irqanatu; 200 troops of Matinu-ba'al of the city of Arvad; 200 troops of the land of Usanatu; 30 chariots and X,000 troops of Adon-ba'al of the land of Shianu, 1,000 camels of Gindibu of Arabia; X hundred troops of Ba'asa,  the man of Bit ruhubi, the Ammonite--these twelve kings he took as his allies....

I decisively defeated them from the city of Qarqar to the city of Gilzau.  I felled with the sword 14,000 troops, their fighting men.  Like Adad, I rained down upon them a devastating flood.  I spread out their corpses and I filled the plain.  I felled with the sword their extensive troops.  I made their blood flow in the wadis.  The field was too small for laying flat their bodies; the broad countryside had been consumed in burying them.  I blocked the Orontes River with their corpses as with a causeway.  In the midst of this battle I took away from them chariots, cavalry, and teams of horses.

 









Its snowing here a  little  bit .

Turanclancath

[Sekhmet]

Oh, thank you so very much dear Turanclancath for the links   A good day to you and yours sir

I have already started reading them

[turanclancath]

Dear lady Sekhmet.
Here is more Assyrian reading food  enjoy it :

http://history-world.org/assyrians.htm

Turanclancath

[Sekhmet]

Part One

When one starts with Abraham, then the most current archaeological reports from the Bible Lands it is possible to find the ever-elusive patriarchs of the Old Testament.  Then by reducing the importance of one ethnocentric verse, while elevating a book; in this case, Judges in value.  Allows time to expand and the historical flow becomes the natural cream of an ancient culture rising and falling on the tides of that long history. 

Until we get to King Jehu of Israel who murdered the House of Ahab, son of Omri.  King Jehu was the son of an Israelite by the name of Jehoshaphat, who was the son of Ninshi (2Kings 9:1-3).  In the last, nearly two hundred years the need to challenge the biblical record developed.  In order to justify the identification of Shalmaneser III’s Black Obelisk of Jehu the son of Omri (maybe grandson) in violation of a clear genealogy of King Jehu. 

When we work from Abraham down to Jehu, the real date for Jehu becomes the Late Bronze Age or very Early Iron Age.  Surprisingly the multiple problems of Jehu in the Neo-Assyrian Empire period fade away with the earlier dating. 

[Sekhmet]

Continued

The Assyrian King of the Black Obelisk is identified only as Shalmaneser.  So we are forced to consider cultural events to better identify the Shalmaneser.

Obelisks (or larger than life stone monuments), detailing the glory of kings’ actually best date between 1450 and ends about 1100 BCE.  The White Obelisk acknowledged as older than the accepted age of the Black Obelisk, dates it closer to the age of Obelisks.  The Kurkh Monolith at this time suffers from to many questions, to have it be of real use for this consideration IMHO.

The opening dedicationary verses, of the Obelisk to the gods of Assyria reflect the terminology of Egypts’ Merenptah, and Hittites’ Mursilis III.  Far better than the terminology of Ashurnasirpal II Annals, that is supposed to be a one generational separation from the Black Obelisk.  Even the Late Mid-Assyrian King Annals terminology of Tiglath-Pileser I do not compare as well to the earlier works, as does the Black Obelisk.

[Sekhmet]

continued...part three
 
Even Tiglath-Pileser I Annals dedicationary verses compares better to the work of Merenptah and Mursilis’ than Ashurnasirpal II Annals.


http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/rp/rp201/rp20124.htm
Column 3 Tiglath-Pileser I Inscription [line 7] states 120 chariots captured.  Compared to the Black Obelisk description of Shalmaneser III’s’ captured chariots “…Hazael [line 98] of Damascus to battle came. 1,221 of his chariots, 470 of his war-carriages with [99] his camp I took from him….” 
Again we are pointed to the earlier date of Shalmaneser I, (the large amounts of chariots) to the mid and late Bronze Age than the later third Shalmaneser of the Iron Age.  Forgetting not, the Biblical report of the number of chariots (900) the Judge Deborah captured the same as the historical Tuthmose III. 

A mighty Hittite Empire 1400 to 1200 bound lessor kings to its primary Great King by legal contracts.  The Black Obelisk reflects this political understanding of the Hittite Empire of this date, surprisingly well. 

The Bible tells us of Ahabs’ beggars believing that the King of Hittite came to save Israel from the Aramaeans.  2Kings 7:3-7.  The Hittite Kingdom retained power through most of the 1200s traditionally its end date is 1180 BCE.

Top these all with the historical person of King of Assyria, Shalmaneser the First battling the Hittites on their Eastern front during the reign of Ramesses II.  Doubts begin to rise substantially to the Ussher chronological inspired identification of the third Shalmaneser being the source of the Black Obelisk.

to be continued...

[Sekhmet]

continued...part four

Scripture tells us, that Ahab fought the Aramaeanians.  He did not side with them to fight Assyria.   Which is the story of the Black Obelisk.

There is the problem that the Obelisk does not clearly identify Jehu as King of Israel, or the house of Omri.  The translation calls him “Yahua son of Khumri.”  http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Assyria/Inscra01.html 
(near bottom of page Epigraph #2.)  In other words, the hard and fast rule repeated and taught, “Jehu, King of Israel is mentioned on the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III”.  This is nothing more than tradition from the 19th century.

To translate Yahua into Jehu is not easy if at all possible.  (I owe our fellow poster Moses a thank you for his help and knowledge in Israelite names for his assistance with this.  Thank you, Moses!)

Khumri does not translate into Israel, hence the son of Omri notation.

Unlike the Merenptah Victory Stela that clearly calls Israel, Israel…according to Ancient Near Eastern History and Culture, William H. Stiebing, Jr. 2003.  Longman Pg. 248.  The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser provides proof that the Neo Empire Assyrians: so respected the self-made rebel King of Israel Omri, that they called Israel, The House of Omri. 

Now, the concept of ancient Assyrian kings respecting a usurper like General Omri is just hard to believe.  When we add that Jehu destroyed the house of Ahab; the son of Omri, the synchronization becomes just to forced, for it to be creditable.  1Kings 16:16-23, and 2Kings 9: 6-10.   

This belief that Assyrian Kings of the Blood, would rename a territory after a usurpering minor king is not borne out in the Black Obelisk itself!  See lines 73-81 and 148-152
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Assyria/Inscra01.html  for the fate, Shalmaneser of the Black Obelisk gave to usurpers of a throne.


to be continued...

[Sekhmet]

Finally, I must consider the work from  The Journal of Hebrew Scriptures.  Volume 5: Article 4 (2004) A. Kirk Grayson, “Shalmaneser III and the Levantine States: The “Damascus Coalition”
http://ra.tapor.ualberta.ca/cocoon/JHS/a034.html 
“…I have chosen to speak upon the Assyrian king, Shalmaneser III (858–24 BCE ) because was the first Assyrian king to concentrate a large proportion of his military campaigns on the “West” (eber n?ri in Akkadian, which means “across the river” — the river being the Euphrates).  In this paper I shall use the terms “West” and “Levant” interchangeably.”

In the reign of the third by that name, there is no evidence other than the Obelisk that he was successful in his battles, or that they made any real impact ( Healy 2000: 10-11).  On the other hand, if we settle the Obelisk on his predecessor the first Shalmaneser we have the first real and successful crossings of the Euphrates by an Assyrian King resulting, in the quieting of Hittites Eastern most sphere of influence.  Documented in the historical record and mentioned in J.G. Macqueen’s work (Macqueen, 1986: 50).  The Black Obelisk can record the work of a real Shalmaneser, not the vain glorious boastings of a later one.

The defeat of Mitannias’ old capital city Hanigalbat credited to Shalmaneser I and during Ramesses II reign, removed it from its then current position of important Hittite ally (Kitchen, 1982: 241).  Could this be referenced by line [34] “…in its flood I crossed.  The city of Dabigu, a choice city of the Hittites…” of the B-side face of the Black Obelisk?
See Giles, F. J.  (1997). The Amarna Age: Western Asia.  (Knapp).  pgs. 315–316., regarding pronunciation differences between Hittite (Indo-European) and Semitic oriented languages.  “Dabigu, a choice city of the Hittites”, could be referring to Hanigal(bat).

Books cited:
The Ancient Assyrians Mark Healy, 2001.  Osprey.  Pgs. 10-11.
The Hittites and their Contemporaries in Asia Minor,   J.G. Macqueen,  1986.  Revised and Enlarged Edition,  Thames and Hudson. Pg. 50. 
Pharaoh Triumphant The Life and Times of Ramesses II. K.A. Kitchen, 1982. Benben.  Pg. 241.

to be continued…

[Sekhmet]

In my effort to return some balance to historical accuracy.  Jehu, is not the son of Omri, Omri was not the name of Israel under Assyrian King Shalmaneser III, and the Black Obelisk does not date to the third Shalmaneser, but to the first.  So, does the Black Obelisk even refer to an Israelite King?  I find no evidence of this.  When the time of Shalmaneser I is examined, Assyria is starting its climb to international dominance.  Already ancient and old Egypt has just recently gave up control of Israel and other northern Syrian states to Hittite.  Then signed a peace treaty with Hittite, Assyria attacking historically considered Egyptian area.  Would have caused even a successful new aggressive king some hesitanency.  One nation Hittite with infighting royals (successional rights), is far different.  Than Ramesses’ II Egypt, even if tied with a peace treaty to Hittite.  Israel with its historical ties to both Judah, and Egypt would not likely have been on Shalmanesers’ I, list of nations to march on.

I have to ask, is Shalmaneser I the real reason for the marrige of Hattusilis III daughter, to Ramesses II?  In considering Shalmaneser I dislike of usupers, we need to remember that Hattusilis III was one himself in the strictest use of the term.  It just might be the real reason after all.

[turanclancath]

Dear Lady Sekhmet.
Exellent  and stimulating  Assyrian postings.
Thanks for the sharing with us.

Question.
1.
Do I calculate correct that you would date the black obelisk around 1250 ?

2.Must it be Salmannasser I as you discovered some Salmanassers without a serial number ? 

I see in your posting  here from december 2( the second in this topic ) you discovered a Salmannasser I  d 1290 ?
Is this the obelisk king ? Or another  ?

 I,m going now to print your Assyrian postings.


Turanclancath:)

[kattey]

Sekhmet

Thanks for the very interesting read.

[turanclancath]

http://www.livius.org/k/kinglist/assyrian.html

A very handy descriptive Assyrian King List.

and 3 different translations of the Black Obelisk

I.
http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/meso/obelisk.html


II.

http://www.bible-history.com/black-obelisk/black-obelisk-text.html


III.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Assyria/Inscra01.html





Turanclancath

[kattey]

Hi Turan

Is there any different information in the three translations?  I notice the third one says Yehua/Khefre whereas the first said differently.  This guy sounds like the Hitler of his time!