Which Pharaoh lived during the time of which Prophet?

[turanclancath]

Quote from Lia Dee yesterday
:

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I must say, this group is an interesting group of people. We all have much in common-- we have a heart toward ancient peoples or we wouldn't even care to know what we've made an effort to learn; and by examining the way they thought and the way they lived, we can learn from them. Because we're not so unlike them...despite the disagreements and occasional hard-headedness as we walk the forest of chronologies.
...If only we could see the forest for the trees...


_________________________________
 

Hear Hear Hear exellent said  dear Lia Dee.!!!

But i miss someting in the Forum (  perhaps because i,m an European   i think   with anoher culture than American culture) I dont say better or more civilised  but different !

I miss the Joy the Vivre the  amicable ambiance as members of a group  the merriness and lightheartnness and the courtoisy.

Its all so deadly serious and  earnest  .
Reminds me of all the Black clothed  Salem men who burned these innocent women.
No fun, No mercy  nothing.
Only serious .
No recanting of   untrue statements
There seems  sometimes only to be 1 truth( of the poster lol lol ) Not very academic.
And mesura  was in the Middle ages 1 of the knightly virtues,

when I joined this Forum I was warned about the vitriolic discussions in American Forums compared to the more courtois European style of discussion .

As i,m a merry Burgundian  Gentilhomme loving wein weib und gesang  as they say I hope that a fine friendly atmosphere will  grow here.

Disagreeing in Harmony !!!
perhaps typical Dutch  we are used to it here in Holland .

Have a nice weekend.

Turanclancath:)

[Irishman]

I've decided to take a more open-minded approach to alternative chronologies (whether Velikovsky/James/Rohl, or the Neo-Courville ones).

I came to the conclusion that I have been to unnecessarily restrictive in my views on them.

With that said, I have to plead ignorance on what they have to contribute to the discussion on the cities conquered or attacked by the Exodusing Israelites. A big disconnect between current views and the bible exists where it comes to when and where these cities were occupied, and when destruction levels date.

[Sekhmet]

I've decided to take a more open-minded approach to alternative chronologies (whether Velikovsky/James/Rohl, or the Neo-Courville ones).

I came to the conclusion that I have been to unnecessarily restrictive in my views on them.

With that said, I have to plead ignorance on what they have to contribute to the discussion on the cities conquered or attacked by the Exodusing Israelites. A big disconnect between current views and the bible exists where it comes to when and where these cities were occupied, and when destruction levels date.

Thank you Irishman 

Again thank you sir, for your thinking and decision to open up a bit more.  I hope you find it exciting
 

[turanclancath]

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-09-73.html?utm_source=bmcr-l&utm_campaign=6fb00f8b53-2009_09_628_27_2009&utm_medium=email

As we are often talking about Josephus etc I think this is an interesting BrynMawr book review   
also about Josephus.


I can recommend to  subscribe  to  the BrynMawr book review list  you recieve a lot of reviews  very stimulating,

Turanclancath:)

[turanclancath]

http://euler.slu.edu/~bart/egyptianhtml/kings%20and%20Queens/Dynasty18.html

As we discuss so much about Egyptian history especially the 18 dynasty ( for some the Exodus dynasty )
I can recommend this wonderfull site.

turanclancath etc

[Sekhmet]

Dear Sekhmet,
Thank you for at least acknowledging my existence on this post...

Yes, I know it is nice in this Turanclancath is very nice.

[turanclancath]

http://www.bib-arch.org/bar/article.asp?PubID=BSBA&Volume=35&Issue=6&ArticleID=28

Exellent scientific  article in the latest BAS.
Now there is a problem.

Around 1200  in the Judean Hills  Israelites.
And the Merempthah stele.

How to harmonise this with  Salomo 3d year temple ( 967 ) + 440 or 480 years =

EXODUS    1400/1450 .
 circa 1447.

Turanclancath:)
How 

[LiaDee]

Yes; Turanclancath:)--an Excellent scientific article in the latest BAS.

The Merenptah stela does mention Israel using the hieroglyph for 'group of people'...and that means they were around the Judean Hills, his 5th year,  ca. 1230 as 'Israelites'.
... so much 'a people' that Merenptah wanted to eradicate them and he boasted he had laid their seed waste. He said Canaan was "plundered (with every evil)".  Israel was subdued by the Canaanites (Ju. 4:1) for 20 years.
Patternistic: "peace, oppression, peace, oppression" can be seen throughout the Book of Judges right to about ca. 1251 where Deborah writes her song about the battles at Taanach...ca. 1251?..."then the land had peace for 40 years" (5:31)
That peace may have just meant it was stablized --many 'setters' appear to have been subdued in Merenptah's victory stela: upper Galilee, Gezer, Ashkelon, greater Palestine (Hurru)...(? perhaps now they were stabilzied under Egyptian vassal rulers, again).

Yes, an absolute math possibiity here: ca. 1447 (I still think 1464:) + 40 = entry into Judean Hills ca. 1424 and Caleb receiving land ca. 1417.

"How to harmonise this with Salomon's temple ( 967 ) + 440 or 480 years ??  = EXODUS    1400/1450 ...circa 1447."

YES!
(maybe, 1464...ha-ha...blame it on the Sothis rising discrepancy)                          Lia

[turanclancath]

http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=7&id=18628

I found this today.

So Josef as Vizier under  Amenophis III and Aknaton ?
And an Exodus ?

215 years in Canaan and 215 years in Egypt ( Septuagint ) stay  gives
Circa 1383/ 1345 Amenohis III low chronology - 215 years
gives an Exodus date   of  1168
Or some  decennia before or after.
Would fit with the Meremphtah stele
But 967 ( Tempel ) + 430 =1397  gives a problem

Of course this is all speculative but  ?
I dont know .
I like more 1447 or 1464:)

Turanclancath:)

[turanclancath]

http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s8883.html

This book seems very interesting to me.
According to the exerpt here( on line )last alinea

Destruction of Jericho circa 1550 so Exodus  in full Hyksos time
Circa 1600 or earlyer  a bit ( 1623 ? ) or later a bit  circa 1568.

The idy is not so new Bruins and van der plicht calibrated carbon dated  Jericho destruction already  some 10 years ago   circa 1550 + or - some  years.
See an older posting.



turanclancath

[LiaDee]

Hello, Turanclancath:)
Yes; the ( Septuagint ) supposedly gives that "215 years in Canaan and 215 years in Egypt stay" a bit of a poke at the dates. I favor the TAnkah, which says straight out: "Now Israel was in Egypt 430 years, to the very day" (Ex. 12: 40) When I added up the 'begats'--sorry, that's what I call them for the lack of a better term--they go straight to our (" I like more 1447 or 1464") as figured from the time Israel (Jacob) entered Egypt, ca. 1894BC.
And yes; I agree again about placing Amenophis III within "Circa 1383/ 1345."
Moses and the group headed out a century earlier--under the elder Thutmoses (others might want to reference our earlier posts).
That dating, of course explains the Amarna Letters about the HAbiru who had been attacking. (They had been doing so, under their judges for almost 60 years, by that time... By Ju. 2:16 the Judges had become the commanders--perhaps the very ones Abdu Hepa, Lab'ayu, etc. complained of!
By the time of the First Temple ca. 980-967...they had "kings" but at the time of Amenhotep III and Akhenaten, their leaders would have those Judges (according to the 'begat' dates)--
Although Moses installed the Judges early on (Ex. 18), by the time of Ehud (Ju. 3:12) old Amenhotep III was near death. This corresoponds to the Hittite-Anatolian wars that caused plague (Tulamaria)--suddenly, the 'begats' show that is the year Joshua died, Amenhotep III, and (as many sources say) "many royal household members"; including Akhenaten's daughter. The very tail end of the Amarna Tablets then, corresponds to the Moabite power mentioned in Judges 3:14.
Egypt, during Amarna, had not only lost their vassals (gained by Thutmose III, Amenhotep II and Thutmose IV) to the Habiru, but the Moabites, as well!
So, where does the Merenphtah stele fit? Right after Deborah's song about the kings that came to fight at Megiddo ('Liadees begat date' ca. 1251--Merenptah's father, Ramesses II's war). Jud. 5:19
Ju. 5:31: "and then the land had peace (stability??) for 40 years."
...da da...enter Merenptah, his 13th (?) son.
Of course all of our stuff is 'speculative' but, again I say: there is some reason the OC is changing to the NC...and we're meant to be a part of this for some reason. True, we weren't there, so we can't really know all the details but let's keep at it...often times the past looks better than the present.
Take care, Lia