The REAL Mount Sinai

[ralfellIs]

The whole Exodus story is about a confrontation with the Egyptian army, which was lost at sea.  Or are you reading a different Torah?

The smoke surrounding Mt Sinai (Great Pyramid) came from the roast sacrifices. If this corelation is true, it is clear that a set of steps led to the platform (that is still there) at the top of the GP.  This was the stairway to heaven.  The sacrifices were made on the top of the GP (Mayan style)  to the gods of the skies  (Mayan style) which made the GP look like a volcano.

Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.  --Exodus 20:26

Are you reading a different Torah?   

No, but I think you are.  Put it this way  -  the altar and the mountain are two different things, one being a bit larger than the other.

And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.  Gen 34:2

It is clear that Moses did go up to the top of Mt Sinai (Great Pyramid).  And that would be logical, for any religion that looked towards the heavens, for the top of the GP is the best celestial observatory in the ancient world (and similar to the Mayan versions).


.

[notalent]

The whole Exodus story is about a confrontation with the Egyptian army, which was lost at sea.  Or are you reading a different Torah?

The smoke surrounding Mt Sinai (Great Pyramid) came from the roast sacrifices. If this corelation is true, it is clear that a set of steps led to the platform (that is still there) at the top of the GP.  This was the stairway to heaven.  The sacrifices were made on the top of the GP (Mayan style)  to the gods of the skies  (Mayan style) which made the GP look like a volcano.

Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.  --Exodus 20:26

Are you reading a different Torah?   

No, but I think you are.  Put it this way  -  the altar and the mountain are two different things, one being a bit larger than the other.

And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.  Gen 34:2

It is clear that Moses did go up to the top of Mt Sinai (Great Pyramid).  And that would be logical, for any religion that looked towards the heavens, for the top of the GP is the best celestial observatory in the ancient world (and similar to the Mayan versions).

But Moses did not offer sacrifice on top of the mountain.  So to get it to fit your preference, you must invent something that isn't there.  You invent steps and a smoking sacrifice at the summit, because for some reason, it must work exactly like Myan stuff that won't exist for two thousand years. 

Sure, makes total sense.

[ralfellIs]

>>>But Moses did not offer sacrifice on top of the mountain.

How do you know?  We have a slightly garbled account of something that happened 3,500 years ago, that has been through numerous copies and translations before arriving in this era.  How do you know EXACTLY what Moses was doing up there   (and you did not even know he was up there in the first place).

Besides, Josephus says that Mt Sinai was all covered in smoke, which sounds very much as if roast sacrifices were being made at the top of the Great Pyramid.


.

[notalent]

>>>But Moses did not offer sacrifice on top of the mountain.

How do you know?  We have a slightly garbled account of something that happened 3,500 years ago, that has been through numerous copies and translations before arriving in this era.

From what was the Qumran/Masoretic Torah translated?  We just have copies of them, not "translations", right?

How do you know EXACTLY what Moses was doing up there   (and you did not even know he was up there in the first place).

How much weight should be given arguments from silence?

Besides, Josephus says that Mt Sinai was all covered in smoke, which sounds very much as if roast sacrifices were being made at the top of the Great Pyramid.

Josephus says what the Torah says.  That's not putting flaming animals on mountain tops (or Egyptian pyramids).  BTW, where in the annals of Egypt did they sacrifice animals on a pyramid?

[ralfellIs]

>>From what was the Qumran/Masoretic Torah translated? 
>>We just have copies of them, not "translations", right?

You think the Torah has not been altered down the years??  Especially the astrological bits? 
Turning Taurus into bulls, Aries into sheep  etc: etc: 
Deleting all the pharaoh's names.
Transposing Zoan into Zion.
Downplaying Joseph's role as prime minister of Egypt.
Downplaying the military engagement between Jacob and Esau.
Downplaying the wealth of the patriarchs.

The corruptions are legion within the Torah.




>>Josephus says what the Torah says.

No he does not.  Have you read Antiquities?  It is a radical departure from the Torah, while telling the same story.




>>BTW, where in the annals of Egypt did they sacrifice animals on a pyramid?

Unfortunately we do not have a complete history of the Hyksos, so we do not know what they were doing. 
Actually, we do have a complete history of the Hyksos.  It is called the Torah and Antiquities, and they say that the Great Pyramid (Mt Sinai) was all covered in smoke and looked like a furnace.


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[notalent]

>>From what was the Qumran/Masoretic Torah translated? 
>>We just have copies of them, not "translations", right?

You think the Torah has not been altered down the years??  Especially the astrological bits? 
Turning Taurus into bulls, Aries into sheep  etc: etc: 
Deleting all the pharaoh's names.
Transposing Zoan into Zion.
Downplaying Joseph's role as prime minister of Egypt.
Downplaying the military engagement between Jacob and Esau.
Downplaying the wealth of the patriarchs.

The corruptions are legion within the Torah.

Not very interesting fantasies, but if you prefer them to the plain sense of the Qumran/Masoretic Torah, that's your privilege.

Personally, I think the Zoroastrian origin hypothesis is a slightly more interesting fantasy than the one you've made up, though just as implausible.

>>Josephus says what the Torah says.

No he does not.  Have you read Antiquities?  It is a radical departure from the Torah, while telling the same story.

Ok, quote the passage where Josepus says sacrifices were made on top of Sinai, or done differently than Torah describes.  If you can't do that, then I win the point. 

>>BTW, where in the annals of Egypt did they sacrifice animals on a pyramid?

Unfortunately we do not have a complete history of the Hyksos, so we do not know what they were doing. 
Actually, we do have a complete history of the Hyksos.  It is called the Torah and Antiquities, and they say that the Great Pyramid (Mt Sinai) was all covered in smoke and looked like a furnace.

Please quote where it says it was smoke from sacrifices.  If you can't do that, score another one for me. 

[turanclancath]

Ralf
This Zodiacal theories of yours reminds me of the theories of 1 of our former posters
Michael.see his profile here under
You will like his theories i guess.

I dont agree  with them by the way

Turanclancath or  simple Don



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Posts: 187 (0.253 per day)Age:N/ADate Registered: Jan 03, 2008, 05:59 PMLast Active: Nov 24, 2008, 06:07 AMLocal Time:Jan 12, 2010, 11:29 PMSignature:
Author of "On Earth as it is in Heaven" The Cosmic Roots of the Bible available at Lulu.com 

[turanclancath]

Ralf.
Your Zodiacal theories  remind me of the Astrotheories of 1 of our former posters Michael.
See his posting below ( he has many Astro  and Esoteric theorie postings )
You will like it I guess?
I dont agree with these Astro theories of course, I  agree far

more with Notalents postings!

Turanclancath or simple Don










Topic: There was no Exodus  (Read 17670 times) 

Michael
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     There was no Exodus
« on: Jan 03, 2008, 06:32 PM » 

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To put it simply the exodus was a cosmic myth. The whole story was part of the Passover story used to explain the rituals surrounding the vernal equinox.

The Canaanite language shows no sudden influx of Egyptian words at any one time. This is something one would expect had there been an Exodus, plus there would be a change in customs. This simply did not occur.

The fantastic number of people involved plus the 40 years in the desert should be proof enough that the story has an underlying fictional meaning. I would think after one year lost in the desert, someone would be wise enough to pick one direction and follow it until they were out.  This isn't rocket science.

The Exodus can never be dated because the story was written in at least 3 different time periods. The oldest of these was during the Great Famine of the Early Bronze Age. This was the background for the text as well as the time of the writing of the birth of Moses, which is near identical to the birth of Sargon. Joseph Campbell claims this story is a cosmic myth, but never explains where in the constellations the myth takes place.  (Eridanus)

The construction of the city in Exodus was a Middle Bronze Age reference. Heshbon, a city conquered by Moses did not exist to the Iron Age. Clearly the story is a living document, written in the same fashion that Tigay describes Gilgamesh.

Moses like Abraham, Samson, and David were earthly or human representations of various gods. The Jewish authors did to gods what the Catholic Church did to them. They made them into saints and incorporated them into their religion and history.

Moses was Marduk. At the vernal equinox Sargon would don the robes of Marduk and become him in a play where he would defeat the powers of chaos. The name for Moses comes from the Assyrian title for Marduk, which was masu, meaning hero. In some places he was called Mises, a gutteral slur of masu, just as Moses is a slur of masu. This was characteristic of Hebrew which generally took foreign words and added a constanant sound to the end of the word according to Sayce.

Evidence that the story did not come from Egypt is within the text itself. The basket of Moses was sealed with Bitumen or pitch as was Sargon's basket. Horus of Egypt, who was also placed in a basket, had a basket that was not sealed in that manner. Why? Because the Egyptians of the era used wax and wet papyrus as sealants. Pitch was common around the Dead Sea and was used there, but not in Egypt until the Greek conquest.



 
 
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[ralfellIs]

>>Ralf
>>This Zodiacal theories of yours reminds me of the theories of 1
>>of our former posters.  I dont agree  with them by the way

If you read the many stories in the Tanakh about bulls, sheep and fish, they make no sense in agricultural terms.  But they make every sense in astrological terms  -  with one constellation battling the next to be the dominant precessional constellation. 

And this is the order of precession, of course  -  Taurus, Aries, Pisces.

This is why Jesus was born as a Lamb of God, but became a Fisher of Men  -  because Aries turned to Pisces in AD 10 ish.

Why do you think that Alexander the Great wore the horns of a ram  -  he was born and ruled under Aries?

Why do you think that all the ancient synagogues in Judaea have a zodiac on the floor?

Why do you think that Josephus said all the elements on the Israelite priest's robes and on the altar represented the constellations?

Why do you think that Jesus had 12 disciples, and was the Sun at the center.


Jesus-Helios and his 12 disciples:






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[ralfellIs]

>>>Because the Egyptians of the era used wax and wet papyrus as
>>sealants. Pitch was common around the Dead Sea and was used
>>>there, but not in Egypt until the Greek conquest.


Many 18th dynasty mummies are filled with bitumen, so this proves nothing. 

It is clear to me that the Sumerians got their theology from Egypt, and not vice verse, and the legend of Sargon is based upon the earlier legends of Osiris.  Moses' Egyptian name was Osarseph (Osiris Seph) meaning 'Son of Osiris'.  Clearly the Egyptian Osirian legend was the inspiration for Moses' birth story.


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[Susan Burns]

Why do you think that all the ancient synagogues in Judaea have a zodiac on the floor?

Why do you think that Jesus had 12 disciples, and was the Sun at the center.


Jesus-Helios and his 12 disciples:






.

The seal of Benu Rachab is a chariot wheel. Rachab means “rider” and is used to describe a skilled charioteer. Beni/Benu Rachab could be translated as the Guild of Charioteers.  Jehonadab was not the son of Rachab but a member of the chariot guild. Enoch becomes Metatron the scribe and rides at the right hand of god in his heavenly merkava. Jehonadab rides with Jehu in his merkava as he wipes out Ba’al cult. Jehu is possessed by god and in a righteous frenzy. While Jehonadab was not from one of the Abrahamic tribes, he was a covenant member by virture of  his righteousness and opposition to Ba’al cult. The merkava guild was incorporated into the covenant by marrying the daughters of Levites and serving in the temple. Their area of Jerusalem was deeded to them by King Jehu and was between Dung Gate and Zion Gate.  Their encampment was the techoa (tent city) near Beit Hacharim and the skilled craftsmen went to work building their part of the Jerusalem wall; Migdal Nozerim.  (John the Baptist was also from Beit Hacharim). TArchaeology shows that the portion of Jerusalem given to the Rechabites was the only inhabited portion after the Roman destruction. It could well be that remnants of "Jews" remaining in Jerusalem were Rechabites and what evolved after the destruction of 2nd temple was a Merkava Judaism.

[yaaqovtwentytwelve]

Hello, I am new on here.  I wanted to say a few things about research I have been doing as independent study under arguably one of the best Hebrew scholars in the United States, Professor W. R. Garr, at the University of California, Santa Barbara.

For a long time, scholars have thought that the theophanies of the  Israelite god,Yahweh, at Mount Sinai were thunderstorms. The research I have been doing since last November has led me to believe that "Sinai" was not any ordinary mountain, it was a volcano. This theory is by no means new, but since the early 19th century explorers and scholars have been thinking the sacred mountain described in Exodus was in fact an active volcano. Hugo Gressman was the first scholar, amidst a myriad of early geographers and explorers like C. T. Beke,  A. Musil, and J. Koenig. Sigmund Freud even wrote a reaction to Gressman in his Moses and Monotheism and speculated that the Israelites from Egypt made an alliance with a Midianite tribe who worshipped Yahweh, a fierce volcanic deity.

The Midianite Hypothesis does indeed suggest this, since Yahweh's original abode seems to be located very close to Midianite territory, in NW Arabia, not in the Sinai. M. Noth made an important contribution by finding that the Numbers 33 itinerary route was actually not in the Sinai, but in NW Arabia near harrat ar-Rahah. This probably served as a pilgrimage route to the Mountain of God, which also served as a well traveled bedouin migration route.

There are indeed conflicting traditions for the origins of Yahweh, so the Midianite hypothesis only works in one very specific, overlooked context. I will not say here because I have been working very hard on a current essay which is quite long and is in the process of peer review.

However, I will say that Yahweh was not indigenous to Syro-Palestine (Canaan) and Edom appears to be a secondary expansion of Yahweh's original abode, which was a sacred Midianite mountain called "Horeb" or the Mountain of God. The theophanies in Exod. 19-20 corroborate the volcano hypothesis and this also entirely rules out the Sinai peninsula because there are no volcanoes on the Sinai peninsula. There are indeed volcanoes in Syria, yet modern day Saudi Arabia serves as the best possible location for the Mountain of God, or Sinai.

Basically it breaks down to this:

If Sinai was a volcano, then it would have to be historically active, and it should have an anthropological status. If it is a holocene eruption, then it is not a candidate. There are three volcanic fields in Arabia with this status. The volcano should also be near Midian, although it is an extremely vague geographical term in the Bible. However, the general location is in NW Saudi Arabia and was probably defined by its darker, more volcanic sand--as opposed to its neighbor, Edom.

Two books were published rather recently, one by C. J. Humphreys and B. J. Silvertsen, both pointing to the volcanic region between two lava fields in NW Arabia; this was the site of the most recent volcanism in this area and the only volcano that was capable of the theophany description is found here as well, Hallal al Badr.

Anywho, look into it... I argue against a location in the Sinai, it is just not possible. My paper is aimed at defining who Yahweh originally was and where he originally came from.

Yaaqov