Nuweiba Beach and the Red Sea Crossing

[Lysimachus]

Greetings everyone, I'm new to this forum and just joined.  I've been fascinated by the so many Biblical topics.  To tell you a bit about myself,  I've involved myself quite heavily in debates with evolutionists, and although I do not have any archaeological credentials, I do have a strong passion for research in the realm of archaeology.

As of recent, I noticed some new information has come to surface regarding the real name for "Nuweiba Beach".   



The map above is taken from the ArkDiscovery site.   The claim is that this is an old map, and the full name for "Nuweiba" is actually "Nuwayba' al Muzayyinah" which purportedly means "Waters of Moses Opening".

If this is true, would this not lend a great deal of credence to the possibility of Nuweiba Beach being the correct crossing site?

I certainly welcome anyone's feedback on this subject!

I found it interesting to discover that a man known as the "late Ron Wyatt" had concluded Nuweiba beach to be the correct crossing site LONG before he had even discovered any chariot remains.   Is it complete coincidence that "bicycle wheels" got thrown directly across from the "Waters of Moses Opening"?   Have any other "wheel" shapes been found in any other locations in the Gulf of Aqaba?   Or only across or in close proximity to Nuweiba Beach?   

I was reading some arguments about a "land bridge" in this forum.  Some were arguing that there is no evidence of a "land bridge", others argued that even if there "was" a land bridge, it was of no relevance to the Israelites crossing on "dry land" or not.

My philosophy is this:  Whether it is a "land bridge" or not is not what makes the underwater topography important.  What makes it important is the gradient.  As Dr. Lennart Moller has demonstrated with his research (Look up Exodus Revealed on YouTube), the gradient (gradual sloping) gave the Israelites a perfect smooth crossing on sandy silt that could have easily been dried and frozen by wind.

Not to throw a monkey wrench, but I personally feel that when God blasted wind, the wind blew so hard that it froze two icy walls.  Science has demonstrated that when you blow wind hard enough, it freezes water. So even if there was water in the sand, it became like dry ice embedded into the sand.   Exodus 15:8 says: And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea."

When I looked up the word "congealed" at dictionary.com it says "To solidify by or as if by freezing" and for "Congeal:" "to change from a soft or fluid state to a rigid or solid state, as by cooling or freezing".  Exodus 14: 21 states "And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry [land], and the waters were divided."  Now please note that God DID use a wind.  He didn't magically just have the waters part "without" wind.  He used nature to work His miracle.  If He used a wind to part the waters, it seems logical to conclude that this wind was no longer blowing once the Israelites crossed. A wind that strong would have blown the Israelites away.  Rather, the wind had already done its duty -- freezing the water and drying the land.  Now that the waters were "congealed" (frozen), the Israelites were safe to cross. 

I thought that was interesting.  But who knows, the term "congealed" could just be a symbolic term too.  To me it just makes sense when realizing just how strong a wind needs to be to split the massive ocean like that.   Imagine ice-cubes falling on the Egyptians!!  That would have really knocked them out, LOL. 

Do you think that this is why Pharaoh decided to chase after the Israelites and go between the walls of water?  If he saw that it was being held up "magically", but not solid, it seems he would have hessitated, but maybe because he saw 2 walls of ice, he figured he had some time to get across?  Who knows! 

Then, when Pharoah was half way across, the ice-walls gave way due to rapid melting (God had timed just how thick the walls needed to be to give the Israelites time?).  Just my personal theory, hehe.

[Elijah]

It is the only possible truth of all of Ron Wyatt's claims of discovery. He has died so any following may merely be a cult survival. This is not to mean they cling together as a commune to sap up every member's belongings, but rather i mean a culture that has decided Ron has found all the truth as God's messenger, perhaps to the extent others would regard as worship of a dead man.

I am indeed very puzzled at much of that particular place for Red Sea crossing, though Suez is shallower and easier to make such a crossing on bare sea bed. The arguments shown by Ron's discovery have much to do with how 6 million people fit on a beach at Aqaba versus Suez. I must say convincing. He also covers names as you do here, but those names are at BOTH the Suez and Aqaba from centuries ago if not millenia. The Suez has its Oasis of Moses, and Mound of Moses. Further, it has been presumed the crossing was Nisan 16 which is 2 days to get there. Can Aqaba be reached that fast!

Sinai /  Horeb / Mount Musa
There is also the Mount Sinai issue where again the plain before Sinai in Arabia is big enough for 6 million where the plain for Sinai in the peninsula is not.

I am not one to say that a man is wrong about the red sea crossing if he has gone onto 20 other discoveries of absurdities. The Red Sea was the first i had heard of back in 1990. And i hold respect for its reasonings on why it is what it is.

[JohnStevenson]

Greetings everyone, I'm new to this forum and just joined.

Hello and welcome to the site.  Everything I have seen concerning the late Ron Wyatt leads me to believe that he was either a clever hoaxter or else a self-deceived unfortunate who was a few McNuggets short of a six-pack.

Having traveled through the Middle East, I know that a LOT of places have old names that are associated with Moses as well as with other patriarch.  Such names bode little in the way of authenticity unless they can be traced back to antiquity.

Science has demonstrated that when you blow wind hard enough, it freezes water

I beg to differ.  Having lived in an area that sees the occasional hurricane with wind speeds that are quite high, I can attest that blowing wind does not freeze water.  It takes a drop in temperature to accomplish that.  I'm not saying that such a freezing was impossible, but only that the wind would have been insufficient to accomplish this.

As to your overly literal treatment of Exodus 15:8, let me point out that this is obvious poetic language.  This is seen in the reference to the nostrils of the Lord (verse as well as the statement that "the earth swallowed them" (verse 12).

[Lysimachus]

Which is why I said, it was just my personal theory, but nothing scientific. 

I have seen demonstrations of wind turning water into ice.  The fact that the wind blew all night on the water would give plenty of time for the water to freeze.  God can do anything.  God knew just how cold the wind needed to be.  To me, 2 frozen walls makes the most sense.   The wind would have blown the Israelites away.  Why would wind blow to remove the waters, then the wind stop with the water just magically being held up?  Obviously, the wind was for a purpose.  Otherwise, God could have just miraculously parted the water without wind.  But no, he chose to use a force of nature.  If he chose to use a force of nature, would it not be logical to conclude that he continued to the trend?   God could have just parted the water without wind, but he didn't.   I think the purpose was to freeze the water.  FACT: Wind cools.  In hot weather, ever feel relief from wind?  Sure, it cools you off.  The faster it blows, the chillier it gets.  That's my experience.

I'm sure God's wind was hundreds of times more powerful than the most powerful hurricanes we see today.  So that wouldn't be a problem.  You sound like you're limitting God. 

I also realize that Exodus 15:8 was poetic language.  Nonetheless, I still inserted it as it is only a small cherry on top to the entire theory. 

What I really want to talk about here is the term "Nuwayba' al Muzayyinah".  Can anyone shed some more light on the meaning?  Also, what language is it?  Arabic?   Where did this map come from?

[Elijah]

well you need to Google up Ron Wyatt's sight by searching aqaba crossing or red sea exodus etc.
But as far as methods, what most people ignore is a shikinah light that made itself appear every equinox Nisan and Tishri. In doing so the people would see that the cloud by day and fire by night had moved to a new location in which they had to go place the tabernacle under it. What is described is a 41 year event that that started almost a year before crossing the red sea and could only occur if an orbit of a comet had occurred at stationary orbit altitude. Whether that comet came down or moved on out back into space is unknown, though rumors were it was Halley's comet.
The point is that the effect was mulitple caused by the factors of weather, and wind direction and astral orbits etc etc. I have pondered whether ammonia was in the air at all. Further what is described is a funnel-cloud as wide as the gap in the sea of which some say would have to be a mile wide for 6 million to cross 6-mile Suez in one 12-hour night from 6pm to 6am.

The scripture says it was light for Israel and not for Egypt. The light is from the full moon. It means they could see the moon and Egypt behind them could not see it. And so Egypt had no idea they had entered the sea.
Further, if they could see the moon, it is possible that the cloud behind them thru the sea was not the whole funnel cloud in a one-mile circular rotation but rather the back wall of it, they being in the eye of it and referred to it as going behind them since it settled down rigth over them.
They had been following it and it specifically says it came down behind them. In which case, Israel is not being blown over by this storm because it has an eye of calmness as its winds suck up all the water as a hurricane done, throwing all the outer water up into a 50-foot wall (if the Suez shoal).

The morning sun caused it to disapate and that's why Moses told them to run for it, rush to shore. God or no God, the man had faith to use nature to save them and it did. That time is here again. People hate others who try to predict things, and so if a person truly know the science and can see it, he can use it to sort out who lives and dies. People obey or disobey by whether they are insulted or offended, not by truth they can see.

If the winds of this funnel-cloud had added ammonia to it, the fact that the winds are circular with an eye prevents breating in larger amounts which might be needed to slush  up the waters.... frozen solid i think not, they would have to melt really fast and i have yet to see parking lot mountains melt that fast. look at summer snow patches.

A circular wind funnel cloud does not take away the east wind direction of that cloud. But obviously if i am correct on funnel cloud formation, the south side has the east wind and the north said a west wind. And since the cloud would not be oval, it must have been a mile round as it traveled 6 miles across the sea, apparently at 1/2 mile per hour taking 12 hours. Jupiter was hit by a comet that we have no idea was the last time the planet was hit. So rare events do occur. We have seen them before. Lake Michigan dropped three feet in 2 minutes and gradually returned an hour later.  The Red Sea is about using what you got to survive the situation. Everything Moses did, he did by what he perceived he could do and be right about it.  And then write the book about it too since no one else was.
hehehe

[JohnStevenson]

well you need to Google up Ron Wyatt's sight...

I have looked at Ron Wyatt's site and that is what convinced me that he hasn't a clue as to what archaeology is about.  But then, that is true of quite a lot of people.

[Lysimachus]

Thank you for the suggestion, but I really do not need to google Ron Wyatt's discoveries. :p   I'm more than familiar with all of his claims for the last 10 years.   I'm not really here to discuss Ron Wyatt.   I'm here to discuss the Red Sea Crossing site, and what makes sense.  I don't care what "luny" individual may have first discovered it.   Credit belongs where it belongs, regardless of how full of error that individual might be. 

There is a new documentary coming out that will be premiered in LA at a theater this September: The Exodus Conspiracy -- Dr. Lennart Moller is behind it.  The film will be aired in selected theaters across the globe, then released on DVD.   Ron Wyatt will be only briefly mentioned I hear as the first locater of the Nuweiba crossing theory, but the film focusses on the hypotheses and data to support them, not an individual.

[eliyahu hanavi]

What I really want to talk about here is the term "Nuwayba' al Muzayyinah".  Can anyone shed some more light on the meaning?  Also, what language is it?  Arabic?   Where did this map come from?

As near as I can ascertain the name has nothing to do with Moses. The name Muzayyinah has a few variants such as Muzeina, Mizaiyina, etc. It is a Bedouin tribe that would go to the oasis every summer and pick dates. Thus, the Nuweiba al Muzeina is "Bubbling springs of the Muzeina Tribe". Just as Ron Wyatt conveniently never presented any evidence of his finds, he also did not seem to be very culturally "aware" or "anthropologically keen" if you will. Cheers!

[Lysimachus]

As far as I'm concerned, Ron Wyatt never knew about this name on that map.  This is the first time I've heard of it, and apparently it's new information.  The Arabs did call Moses "Muza".  I've heard them pronounce it, and the stories of how they pronounce it is exactly "Muza'".   

[eliyahu hanavi]

As far as I'm concerned, Ron Wyatt never knew about this name on that map.  This is the first time I've heard of it, and apparently it's new information.  The Arabs did call Moses "Muza".  I've heard them pronounce it, and the stories of how they pronounce it is exactly "Muza'".   

It may be the first time you have heard of it, but the name has been on maps for many, many years and it is no mystery. By no means is this new information. It is obvious that you have predetermined what evidence you will accept in support of your theory. The facts remain, though.

Muza, Musa, Moses, Moshe--all very common. Do you forget all the Pharaohs with that particular appellation? All the Jews? The term Muzeina is not etymologically linked to Moses. Unfortunately for the Ron Wyatts out there the old maxim of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" stands. He was viewed as a fraud/charlatan because he supposedly discovered so many artifacts and identified so many unknown sites yet did not present any evidence. The same holds true for the so-called chariot wheels. Who cares if he stated that he never heard of the name on the map until after discovering the wheels?!? He never proved that he discovered any wheels. Convenient, no?

The best any can do for you is to direct you to a library instead of the internet. You will run into far too many "shoddy sites" on the net. Cheers!

[stilgar]

See Eric Cline's recent book From Eden to Exile for the debunking of Ron Wyatt in connection with his claims to have found Noah's Ark (pages 30-31), Sodom and Gomorrah (pages 50-51), and the Ark of the Covenant (pages 140-141).  See also page 85 for a dismissal of the "water-logged remains...of chariots" as well as a video posted on YouTube of Professor Randall Younker discussing his underwater exploration of Wyatt's so-called "chariot wheels."  Wyatt was a nurse anesthetist from Nashville, Tennessee, not an archaeologist.

[Lysimachus]

It may be the first time you have heard of it, but the name has been on maps for many, many years and it is no mystery. By no means is this new information. It is obvious that you have predetermined what evidence you will accept in support of your theory. The facts remain, though.

What theory of mine are you talking about?  Please be advised, my theory of frozen ice walls and the name on the map are two very different things.  For your information, I am not using the name on the map to "support" my ice-wall theory.  That theory is plausible even if they crossed at Suez.

The name may have been on the map for many, many years, but this is the first time anything regarding the subject has surfaced for discussion.  The truth to the matter is, it was Kevin Fisher of ArkDiscovery.com who first brought this subject up and put it in his video.   The subject (not the name on the map) is new for discussion.  Ron Wyatt never knew or heard anything about this.  You will never find one fragment of him speaking on this name on the map.  

, the Nuweiba al Muzeina is "Bubbling springs of the Muzeina Tribe".

I would like to know how you know this.  Do you know Arabic?  How does "yyinah" mean "Tribe" to you but mean "Opening" to what Kevin Fisher is purporting?

never proved that he discovered any wheels. Convenient, no?

There is definitely proof of round circular objects that appear to be wheels.  The part that can't be proven is that they are Egyptian chariot wheels.  So please be careful in your wording.  Nobody doubts that there is a gold colored 4-spoked wheel down there.  The video footage is quite clear on that.  Even the biggest skeptics agree that the photo and footage is real. The coral shapes of 6 and 8 spoked round objects are quite discernable.  The question is, how can it be proven that they are Egyptian?  Well, you can't really--not without a lot of money and backing to undergo a vigorous organized dive to excavate the wheels in a manner that will not damage them.  But if all the "big shot" archaeologists and Ph.Ds think like you, well then there will never be further investigation.  I guess we're forced to come to possible conclusions via the rule of deduction.   Was it a steam ship pipe handle?  If there is evidence that the owners of a steam ship were apt to coating their steam ship pipe handles with decorative gold coating, well then I guess we have a strong case.  Can coral grow on solid metal as shown in the picture?  Apparently, if coral is growing right on top of it, there must be wood in the wheel, and not just solid metal.  Then again, coral can grow on living organisms that attach to metal.   There are a lot of possibilities here.

[Lysimachus]

See Eric Cline's recent book From Eden to Exile for the debunking of Ron Wyatt in connection with his claims to have found Noah's Ark (pages 30-31), Sodom and Gomorrah (pages 50-51), and the Ark of the Covenant (pages 140-141).  See also page 85 for a dismissal of the "water-logged remains...of chariots" as well as a video posted on YouTube of Professor Randall Younker discussing his underwater exploration of Wyatt's so-called "chariot wheels."  Wyatt was a nurse anesthetist from Nashville, Tennessee, not an archaeologist.

Hi stilgar,

Question.  Assuming you believe that a Red Sea Crossing took place, where do you believe is the most likely place?  Also, please provide me all the data that gives a solid foundation for this place to be the likely crossing.  Once again, the subject just went off a branch.  Is this about Nuweiba Beach and the Red Sea Crossing, or is it about Ron Wyatt?  The answer is in the title.

[Elijah]

There are people who think they debunk a subject or topic by debunking the loudest mouth who mentions it. God should not be judged by Ron Wyatt nor should Nuweiba Beach be debunk for Wyatt. Truth will be truth. I question the depth of the water.

As for the Red Sea wheels, i will share a little something that may have gone Ron Wyatt's way. Back around 1989 i predicted the end would come in a parallel that gave a choice of 1996/97 or 2008/9. CHoosing what i thought was better indication for 1997 i perceived that religions may get their expected 7 years war in 1990, and so predicted war would break out that had to be settled only by global United Nations decree. Because the U.N> will kill the Christ (church) I believed that war of 1990 to have come true for me. However, my 15-year old niece wanted to apply for a college scholarship contest that asked to create ideas you felt would happen before 2000. I cheated, i submitted my theories to the contest for her, until a return letter put her in the finals that required a signature that the ideas were hers. It may have gone to whatever affiliation Ron Wyatt would be around, because it was odd to me that he popped up the next year.

In it (a self booklet printed off my Macintosh computer) I had predicted before 2000 that the chariot wheels would be discovered in the bottom of the Red Sea and showing a printed map-crossing of the Suez shoal.  It really wasnt a prediction as much as it was an attempt to stir desire for others to go look for them, to snorkel or dive etc. Because i do know God, that things occur by what gets around, and they can be caused. Jesus caused his death by choice by knowing whether they would go that far beyond just having him jailed.

I was laid off from the auto industry and working at fast food where First Assembly came in. And they had elders (puffed up heads just like my Kingdom Hall had) who were know it alls. And this one said to me, oh they found the chariot wheels... Ron Wyatt did. So I made a few phone calls. I didnt know where Aqaba was.... got the wrong impression they were referring to the strait at the south end of the Red Sea. But eventually the net showed these so called pictures of wheels in the Sea.
I wondered if Ron Wyatt was triggered to go find by what i wrote, or perhaps triggered to make it up.
COMMENT?
My pref for crossing has not yet changed from Suez to Aqaba, but
I am open to the possible correction.

[JohnStevenson]

There is definitely proof of round circular objects that appear to be wheels.  The part that can't be proven is that they are Egyptian chariot wheels

Such could be proven if a legitimate archaeological endeavor was to excavate and study the artifacts and not merely to produce photos that show interesting but non-conclusive photos.  It is this same sort of "definite proof" that is regularly used to support ufo's, structures on Mars, and all sorts of outlandish claims.  Pardon me for not being so gullible.