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Irishman
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« on: Jul 06, 2009, 12:48 PM »

“Akhenaten and Hebrew Religion”

Akhenaten's henotheism has been suggested as providing insight into the
framework-inspiration of some of the earliest Hebrew henotheism. "The
Hymn to the Aten"  which dates to his reforms (14th century B.C.E.) 
praises the beneficence of the sun in language that is echoed in Psalm
104 regarding the Hebrew God. Can this coincidence of religious
synchronicity be interpreted (without much danger of over-extension) as
a genesis (pardon the pun) for Hebrew religion? John Day (a Jehovah's
Witness scholar, which I disclose so you can judge for yourself how much
this plays into his research) posits that the creation Hymn to the Aten
served as a source for the biblical writer P. He also sees linguistic
connections between the two traditions.

"The expression l-mw'dym "for seasons" is found in the OT only in Psalm
104:19 and Genesis 1:14, and both are mentioned in reference to
luminaries. Similarly, chytw "beast" is found in Psalm 104:11-12 and
Genesis 1:24, and is elsewhere restricted to poetry in the OT. This
suggests at minimum that P is dependent on a poetic passage, and
probably Psalm 104.

The greater mythological character of the psalm clearly establishes the
direction of dependence. In Psalm 104:7 we actually have an allusion to
the divine conflict with the sea, whereas in Genesis 1:6-7, God's
control of the waters is merely work, and in  Psalm 104:26 we encounter
God's creation of Leviathan while Genesis 1:21 speaks in demythologized
terms of "great sea monsters". The allusion to thwm "deep" in Genesis
1:2 can thus be traced to Psalm 104:6 which specifically refers to the
waters by this name." (see http://www.jehovahs-
witness.com/10/73734/1.ashx )

What if an exodus event took place at the end of Akhenaten's father's
life?

Akhenaten had broken away by then. at least religiously, his
henotheistic views being well-documented before his father's death. What
if Psalm 104 carries echoes of the Hymn to the Aten because the
departing Hebrews took it with them?


Ex. 1:11 says the new Pharaoh set up treasure cities at Pithom and
Raamses.

The land of Goshen is mentioned in Ex. 8:22 as being the place where the
Hebrews were quartered. this is in no way connected to the palace of Pharaoh. Again in Ex. 9:26 the Hebrews are located in Goshen, which was
said to be immune to the plagues. Were the Pharaoh's palace and main
army there, they would have fallen under that immunity, according to the
rules of the story.

Besides, the first-born son of Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye - Tuthmosis
did die before he could reach the throne. I can see how this story could
have been the impetus for the death of the first-born plague in Exodus.


Perhaps the Hebrews who left Egypt under Amenhotep III had heard of the
trials of their brethren Habiru in Canaan and decided to help reclaim
their homeland from the Egyptians? It would provide a sensical logical
motivation for an exodus. Ah, but this raises the question of why
Amenhotep III would have let them go. Why indeed.

I understand we cannot attest to the complete original meaning of the
list of Sheshonq I, however, the HB states that King Rehoboam fortified
14 cities in the hill country west of Jerusalem, and that the Egyptians
captured these 14 cities. Of those 14 cities, the only one that survives
on Sheshonq's list is Aijalon.

That leaves Bethlehem unattested in the Shoshenq I campaign record.
And Etam,
And Tekoa,
And Bethzur,
And Hebron,
And Ziph,
And Adoraim,
And Lachish,
And Mareshah,
And Moresheth-Gath,
And Adullam,
And Socoh,
And Azekah,
And Zorah.

Not to mention Jerusalem. It is plausible that we could be missing 1 or
2 cities from the list. In fact, we  know that three cities' names are
lost to us. But 14? Including the prize Jerusalem? This approaches
unbelievability.

There are 39 other legible cities listed there. It is clear that the
focus of the campaign (based on the accident of preservation) was the
Negev, Israel , southern Galilee and Gilead.

I don't see wisdom in assuming that all those 14 cities were originally
included in Sheshonq's list.
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eccles
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 29, 2009, 05:08 AM »

Irishman,
You have a very good knowledge of Egyptian History. I am not too bad with it myself.

Have you considered that the Hebrews mentioned in Exodus could really be the Hyksos? They ruled Egypt in the 3rd Intermediate period and were expelled at about the start of the 17th Dynasty. (Correct me if my timeline is out). I have written from memory. I have so many books to refer to. It takes time.
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notalent
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« Reply #2 on: Jul 29, 2009, 06:23 AM »

Irishman,
You have a very good knowledge of Egyptian History. I am not too bad with it myself.

Have you considered that the Hebrews mentioned in Exodus could really be the Hyksos? They ruled Egypt in the 3rd Intermediate period and were expelled at about the start of the 17th Dynasty. (Correct me if my timeline is out). I have written from memory. I have so many books to refer to. It takes time.

NC posits the Hyksos as the Biblical Amalek.
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eccles
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« Reply #3 on: Jul 29, 2009, 04:53 PM »

Irishman,
You have a very good knowledge of Egyptian History. I am not too bad with it myself.

Have you considered that the Hebrews mentioned in Exodus could really be the Hyksos? They ruled Egypt in the 3rd Intermediate period and were expelled at about the start of the 17th Dynasty. (Correct me if my timeline is out). I have written from memory. I have so many books to refer to. It takes time.

NC posits the Hyksos as the Biblical Amalek.

That seems right. I just checked Wikipedia to find out more. This line is significant:

"According to Arab historians such as Ibn Khaldun and Ali ibn al-Athir, Amalek is a name given to the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Hyksos who came from the same lineage."

Would you agree?
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Elijah
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« Reply #4 on: Jul 29, 2009, 06:22 PM »

All nonmodern sources indicate chronologists who beleived Hyksos came at Peleg's death. The figure leaving in their 518th year confirms short Genesis if the beleif is the Hyksos left following Israel to become Israel citizens.

However, Greek chronology places Babylon's 300-year rule to fall in 1600 BC which is 6 years too soon, and they do so because they regard this as Adams year 3600. This is not just archeology it is biblical and so to ignore biblical claims in ancient history only questions why one bothers then to study the bible in a biblical forum. The end of Amizaduga is 1625 BC which is Adams year 2400, but by regarding 1600 BC as 3600 they have reversed a prediction of worlds 2400+3600 as being 3600+2400. Obviously then they are also confusing people who left Babylon at Amizaduga's death with Hyksos leaving Egypt as if for the same reasons.

Japanese Flood epoc 3060 BC confirms this in a sothic 1460 years to 1600 BC as someone's exodus or migration. According to China their Flood 2953 BC is a sothic 1440 years to 1513 BC. This gives every indication that Hyksos did leave the forced labor of Egypt at the time of Moses birth when Babylon fell in 1594 BC. But clearly this migration was not truly a mass cooperative effort, but merely masses who left on their own as families. The organized mass left with Moses and all Israel. This is why they number 600,000 men between 20 and 60 in a mere 215 years.
This has all been posted before. The Hindu error of calculating the lunar dates of Venus as 1900 BC instead of 1625 BC proves that they migrated from Ur in 1900 BC, and out of Babylon in 1625 BC to the Indus River. The Hyksos may or may not have migrated into Hindu land because Mayan culture reveals both a descent of calendar dates from India into China and Japan, as well as separately the 1513 BC exodus date (as does China). The dispute of dates by 24 hours in Mayan culture implies that oriental Mayans who came from the west by heading east were indeed surpirsed to meet Egyptian Mayans coming in from the East. (But it is clear Copan was founded first from China).

All of this shows that migration patterns of flight existed in early history that all and everyone knew of for Egypt and Babylon as two opposing competitions. The Hyksos were not just Shemetic Hitite Assyrians from Uartu (Ararat) but also included the sons of Shem in Chaldea (Ur). This is why the confusion refers to dispersal since there is no one place they all agreed to go to. But calendar and astronomy traces the whole tree in all nations.

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ELIJAH
of 1996 back now in 2008
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