Joseph era coins found in Egypt

[metindal]

Archeologists have discovered ancient Egyptian coins bearing the name and image of the biblical Joseph, Cairo's Al Ahram newspaper recently reported. Excerpts provided by MEMRI show that the coins were discovered among a multitude of unsorted artifacts stored at the Museum of Egypt.

http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news/200909252265/Joseph-era-coins-found-in-Egypt.html

[Victorius66]

I saw this story in the Jerusalem Post. It would be an incredible find, if verified. Most of the comments there contend that they cannot be coins, as coinage was not in existence at the time. However, the biblical text records some sort of money in circulation (see Genesis 42:35, for instance). I find it very hard to believe that a powerful, advanced kingdom like Egypt would not have some kind of currency. Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see what the experts make of this discovery.

[Sekhmet]

How wonderful if these coins actually do as being claimed.  If so, I can finally give up my hunt for the Pharaoh who freed Joseph!!!!!!

Now into my Hoffmeier.

[Sekhmet]

Victorius66, statement about coinage in Ancient Egypt reminded me of documentation I had about it.  I found it! 

According to Rosalie David, pg 96, Handbook to Life in Ancient Egypt
“Egypt had no official coinage until the Persian Period ca. 525 B.C.E.” and
Payment consisted of any object the creditor would accept and all commodities were valued against a general standard.”

Robin Gay in her Women in Ancient Egypt makes no mention of coinage at all.  She agrees with Ms David that payment consisted of commodities until the New Kingdom when debens had evolved.  Records from Deir el-Medina record “a woman was paid 29 deben of copper… for some clothes….  A deben was a unit of weight roughly equivalent to 91 grams” from page 129. 

Based upon my notes, I would say this discovery is another fake.  I had to laugh Pharaoh allowing a Vizier to stamp himself and name into legal tender in the Middle Kingdom. 

Why it wasn’t until the end of the 20th dynasty that the High Priest Amenhotep had dared to depicted himself at Karnak on the same scale as Pharaoh, and he ended up in exile. 
Source A History of Ancient Egypt by Nicolas Grimal pg. 291

Thankfully, because I have a compressive regional history to use I knew when Joseph really lived in Egypt.  Just like his father, grandfather, and great-grandfather.  However, the coinage buzz interested me and LOL a great laugh is always fun.  LOL 

Getting back into Hoffmeier wasn’t as much fun but brain work is always rewarding.  Thank you both for an easy evening for a difficult day.

[turanclancath]

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD256109

A more extended version of the pseudo Josef coins
I agree with you dear lady Sekhmet its a big CANARD.

  More Interesting is why this   joke story wax invented
Who when why how  etc

Perhaps  its usance at the end of the holy Ramadan(  September 18 )  to do practical jokes

[Bruce]

All,
Because I accept the Bible as accurate I have no problem accepting the coins as authentic. From the article at memri.org it appears that the coin with Joseph's name twice and the cow has very ancient writing which would go well with it being from the Third Dynasty the one place a seven year famine is recorded and about 400 years before the end of the Old Kingdom its destruction being caused by the plagues. This also would link Joseph and Imhotep.
grace and peace
Bruce

[Sekhmet]

All,
Because I accept the Bible as accurate I have no problem accepting the coins as authentic. From the article at memri.org it appears that the coin with Joseph's name twice and the cow has very ancient writing which would go well with it being from the Third Dynasty the one place a seven year famine is recorded and about 400 years before the end of the Old Kingdom its destruction being caused by the plagues. This also would link Joseph and Imhotep.
grace and peace
Bruce

Welcome Bruce, for the promise of salvation, and adoption into the house of God.  Nothing works better than the Bible for sure. 

As current archaeology stands as for "proving" scripture as Dr. Albright wanted it falls a bit from perfection.  This is why I have worked with newer information from today to the past thirty years.  Much of it fits scripture so much better than using proving the Bible to look at the nudity of 18th dynastic pictographs.

I wish you a great stay and a great welcome to the board.  The coinage issue, would be a redaction of what a steward capable of running an important man's estate, would have cost sometime before the redaction.  It is no insult to scripture to update it for newer generations, IMHO.  In fact I take it as proof of its age, and value.  People cared that the future would read, understand, and hopefully value it as well.

A good day sir to you, yours and to all.

[Sekhmet]

I am never one to deny the physical evidence in fact my chronology is dependent upon it. 

I congratulate Dr. Sa'id Thabet in his discovery.  Now it is up to the Supreme Council and other scholars to verify what Dr. Sa’id Thabet believes is true.

However, it does not mean that Joseph lived at that time.  The Middle Kingdom was interested in renewing ties with Palestine.  They were severely weaken since the collapse of the Old Kingdom and the slightly later collapse of the Syro-Palestinian area.  These Middle Kingdom Pharaohs were willing to extend a hand of peace to the growing might of the formerly escaped slaves now consolidating their hold on the land. 

We see this in the story of Sinuhe, “welcome home, wanderer” ending of the story.  We see it in the use of miracles for succession for the first time in Egyptian history. 

The problem arises when we see it in the Pharaoh Senuseret III campaign to Skmm identified as Shechem and the Execration Texts naming it as an enemy state.  (See Archaeology of the Land of the Bible -10,000-586 B.C.E. by Amihai Mazar chapter six.)  According to Prof. Mazar at Senuseret’s time it isn’t much of a threat, doesn’t even have walls!  Therefore, in the discovery in 1903 by those determined Germans for a great find!  They missed the real Shechem; I understand there are well over a thousand unexplored Early Bronze Age sites in Israel alone.  OR Egyptian chronology is off by some years here a possibility. 

Then I have the problem of that the stratification of Shechem does not match a Jacob and family in Shechem in the late 2nd dynasty.  This problem could be resolved if Senuseret III campaign had a Shechem worthy of a military campaign. 

Anyway I do sincerely congratulate Dr. Sa'id Thabet  on this find, and like the rest hope it proves again, the ancient scholars wrong in claiming things about Egypt and the Bible Lands.  I will however, await the trial by fire any new find goes through due to the history of fakery in the region.  Maybe that signet ring with the cartouches of Ay and Ankhesenamun will turn up again.

As noted above if the coinage is verified.  There are other reasons than Joseph living at time for its existence.  Imhotep went through a long period of deification in Ancient Egypt.  Face and name of the part Egyptian tribes’ father, on coinage during a period of re-establishing ties would be a help in that.

To all a good day.