What subjects would you like to see in the next issue of BAR?

[archaeologist]

one of the reasons i propose that a series of articles be done is that i oppose erich cline's position that archaeology should only be done by professionals.

this elitism and exclusivism leads to a controlled information pipeline in which the truth could easily be squashed and a 'politically correct tale' inserted in its place.

if we let the professionals do it only, then one of the greatest dicoveries would not have happened--the dead sea scrolls.

plus , using the same example, we see how 'professionals' act when given exclusive rights to historical properties.  the scholars initially in charge held on to their portions of the scrolls for decades depriving the world of vital information and access.

exclusivity is not the answer here and theprofessionals need to know that they can and will be upstaged if they are too slow and too mysterious.  we do not need to wait 40 years to gain access to what they have uncovered. the professionals do not always have the truth and as evans pointed out, take too long wrangling over minute and unimportant details.

let the field remain wide open and the world will benefit.

[stilgar]

So you want this series of articles debunking the crackpots to be written by an amateur?  Don't you think that you'll just wind up with more crackpot theories as a result?   Surely years and years of training in archaeology, ancient history, languages, and religious studies count for something in properly investigating such topics?  (and no need to see any "conspiracies" -- no two academics agree on anything, let alone conspiring to create false truths!)

And re the Dead Sea Scrolls, surely you mean the translation of the scrolls rather than the actual discoveries (more than half of which were made by professionals)?  And by the way, the breakthrough in the logjam re the translation and publication of the scrolls was in large part done by professionals -- Martin Abegg, Ben Zion Wacholder, and Robert Eisenman, not to mention the Director of the Huntington Museum.  Can you name me a single amateur or layperson, besides Hershel Shanks, who assisted in getting the Dead Sea Scrolls published?

[archaeologist]

So you want this series of articles debunking the crackpots to be written by an amateur

i want honesty and integrity not elitism or arrogance.

Don't you think that you'll just wind up with more crackpot theories as a result?   Surely years and years of training in archaeology, ancient history, languages, and religious studies count for something in properly investigating such topics?

doesn't mean they are right or do not lie.  it also doesn't meanthey are free from corruption and the old boys club mentality.  sure it counts but one's character comes into play as well.

and no need to see any "conspiracies" -- no two academics agree on anything, let alone conspiring to create false truths!)

idon't see conspiracies but cline's book and recent article does not support any confidence either.

And re the Dead Sea Scrolls, surely you mean the translation of the scrolls rather than the actual discoveries

the original discovery was done by amateurs and the follow-up ones would not have taken place if it weren't for the amateur discovery.  no professional was looking or digging in the area.

And by the way, the breakthrough in the logjam re the translation and publication of the scrolls was in large part done by professionals --

iam not concerned about WHO got the publication s started BUT i was pointing out the ATTITUDE of those professionals who held on to them for decades depriving everyone of their information.

sorry but until the ATTITUDE of theprofessionals changes, i will always disagree on these issue.

Can you name me a single amateur or layperson, besides Hershel Shanks, who assisted in getting the Dead Sea Scrolls published

Shanks would have been my selection but i don't care about that as i am tired of hearing about the scrolls every time i turn around.  what i am saying is, theprofessionals have this attitude thatthey are in control and they are not plus they think they can take their sweet time in producing the information and that is just wrong.

though i disagree a lot with shanks, i will applaud his efforts in getting the dead sea scrolls out into the public.

[Balderdash71964]

I would to see a few articles on the current state of Christian papyrus dating and findings. 

Another article or two about the writings of second century Church leaders and whether or not the scholarly world today agrees or disagrees with what people like Ireaneus and Polycarp are said to have told us about the authorship of the now cannon gospels then.  Are those early Christian apologetics dismissed entirely or do they have something to teach us still?  If they are dismissed, based on what evidences and what reasonings?  Or, are new books like "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses" by Bauckham and "The Earliest Christian Artifacts" by Hurtado, an indication that the nineteenth century challenges against early authorship of the Christian scriptures is coming to an end now, probably because of the discoveries over the last century that were unavailable to the early detractors and late authorship skeptics. 

I would like to see some debate articles (people from both sides) on topics like those.

[archaeologist]

in another thread the discussion has moved from evolution to the four rivers of eden.  that topic would be a great one for BAR to investigate and see what evidence is available, what some scholars and arch. think and see if there is any consensus on the subject.

[DThomas]

It seems like the hottest topic currently in all the BAS Forum is under Digs/Sites, "Current Excavations at Tall el-Hammam." There's a lot going on there, not the least of which is the possible location of biblical Sodom. Dr. Steven Collins, director of the dig, is superlatively articulate on the subject, and has motivated quite a discussion. Somehow he manages to cut through all the baloney and keep the discussion intelligent and extremely interesting. Well worth checking out.

[Brother Thomas]

Right now, I can't get enough of the Tall el-Hammam forum, and want the passionate debate to continue. Let the world know that even alittle colorful  discussion amongst scholars can lead to great friendships and an explosion of interest. The surrounds of Abraham are the foundation of the Bible.
Want to sell magazines, issue after issue? Then, check out NEW and EXCITING topics that catch the interest of your audience...and topics that attract new readers.
Like it or not, Tall el-Hammam is the hottest news of today.

[turanclancath]

 Frater Thomas Pax Vobiscum.
It seems you resemble a bitt frater Tuck from Robin Hood loving combat ( little fun joke  sorry but life without fun is bleak  .)

You are perfectly right about Tell El Hammam.

If it was a new Brand  well it is placed brilliantly in the  market with  a fantastic PR and Marketing strategy.
Generating a lot of Publicity and consumer interest
see the old AIDA formule  attention desire etc  and the new supplements in this theory )

The same for BAR  in the end it all is about generating cash !!! sales and suscriptions  will a journal survive in these hard times.

So a hot topic will attire new readers/suscriptions.

And vice versa it is another brilliantmarketing campaign for tell el Ha mmam to be in the BAR revieuw.
Digs are bottemless money Pits helas.

And all Free Publicity.

To see art and knowledge and digs just as a Brand is nothing new .

Michelangelo in his exentric behaviour did marketing in that way.

The same for Beethoven.

An Heinrich Schliemann was an exellent marketeer for Troy.

Like most recent the late professor Manfred Korfmann of Tuebingen University.

His marketing/Pr about his Troy excavation was even more brilliant.
And the deadly Quarrel with his opponents  was even  far  more and more
virulent than our little disagreament.

There it was really mortal combat no quarter given .
( seethe website of Troy at Tuebingen University )

So from the point of marketing I really admire the Tell el Hammam campaign.
From the scientfic point  they have very good arguments but this discussion is closed.

turanclancath

[DThomas]

No, the Tall el-Hammam thread is still open, just in another chapter. BAR really should let Steven Collins "duke it out" with the Finkelsteins, Clines, Devers, and Woods over the subject of Sodom's location. In fact, Shanks should put them all in a room to debate the subject, then give us a transcript of it. Sounds like fun to me!!!

DThomas

[digger]

It actually could be a huge debate at a BibleFest seminar. With such big names and hot topics, there would be standing room only! Rick needs to suggest this to Shanks.

[archaeologist]

what would be nice is a 2 part series on the contribution of amateurs to the field of archaeology.  i am not talking about the wing-nuts like wyatt or jacobovici  but even they have contributed to the field by getting people to think about what is happening in the middle east.

[Lyn]

I would like the current idea on Jewish/Hebrew ethnic labels of their people along the Biblical timeline of alleged history. What was Moses, for example... Egyptian where he was born, Jewish by birth? Was Abraham a Mesopotamian, or his people not defined by their residence despite bloodline and inter-marriages, as they moved about?

I'd also like to learn more about the everyday life of the average woman and her personal everyday needs... her essential cooking tools, bathroom facilities, birthing and baby care, clothes and sewing, etc.

[DThomas]

Some future issue of BAR should carry an article by Dr. Steven Collins on the location of Sodom, with responses and rebuttals. This is what BAR needs to continue in the true tradition of Biblical archaeology rather than skirting around the fringes with articles about Byzantine churches. Talk about a controversy! I would like a ring-side seat for that one!

DThomas

[DThomas]

 Can anyone give me one good reason why my suggestion for an upcoming issue of BAR is not just as good a suggestion as anyone else's? There must be something very wrong with a person who would belittle anyone's legitimate idea for publication in BAR. Actually, why would anyone make any kind of snide remark about a mere suggestion that was specifically asked for? "What would YOU like to see..." sounds to me like someone is asking for my idea on what a good subject would be for BAR. I have made a suggestion. And now archaeologist is demeaning my suggestion? What lies behind this is anybody's guess, but it is not helping the Forum one bit.

DThomas

[sgibbs]

There are so many subjects that I would like to read about, but if I have to pick one, I guess it would be on the subject of transcriptions.  I am another arm-chair archeologist, and I look forward to reading anything archeological, with the emphasis on the biblical.  My fasination occurs when I read that there was a 'grocery list' on a cuniform tablet.  My first and only question is: what was on the grocery list, be it wheat, or whatever.  I guess in my feeble mind, I want to be taken back in time and read what was written on that grocery list 2000 years ago for myself.  Is there any book, website that covers topics like that?  BAR is a wonderful magazine and I have had the priviledge to turn several of my friends onto it.
  sgibbs