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Author Topic: faith or evidence  (Read 22861 times)
notalent
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« Reply #135 on: Feb 06, 2008, 11:35 PM »

There is nothing in Peter and Paul's wrirings to convince me it has anything to do with God, just their version of what they want God to be. The Bible is cosmic myth, historical fiction, religious philosophy, and some history. Apparently it is just enough history to make people read the book in awe and jump through hoops over it.

"What camest thou into the wilderness to see...a man clothed in soft raiment?"

If we approach a text with an agenda to discredit, will we allow ourselves to be disappointed?  OTOH, if we approach a text with the goal to understand it on its own terms, we stand a better chance of obtaining that more-worthy objective.

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There are many false claims in the Bible. All miracles are false. It is impossible to date the Exodus as not all the cities conquered by Moses and Joshua existed in one single era. This is part of the archaeological record. I would imagine anyone who wouldd dare use the handle of Archaeologist would be aware of such findings unless they are just blowing smoke.

Statements like "all miracles are false" call to mind the self-imposed paradox dramatized in The X-Files, where initially the Scully character approaches Mulder's cases with a similar assumption.  This prevented her ever seeing or accepting the reality of the story world.  Likewise, if a miracle ever did happen in our world and in your presence, there's no guarantee you would believe the witness of your own eyes because that witness could be of lesser authority to you than your preferred notions.

But what if you determined it was real, what then?  Would you then reflect on the efficacy of every trying to document the event, knowing what it is to be a scoffer?
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rumplesnitz
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« Reply #136 on: Feb 07, 2008, 12:07 AM »

Indeed...
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archaeologist
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« Reply #137 on: Feb 07, 2008, 03:02 PM »

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Likewise, if a miracle ever did happen in our world and in your presence, there's no guarantee you would believe the witness of your own eyes because that witness could be of lesser authority to you than your preferred notions.

the parable of the rich man and lazerus as told by Jesus would support this point.

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horses and donkeys make mules

i can't find the links i want to use to discuss this but hybrid experiments are a completely different topic.
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rumplesnitz
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« Reply #138 on: Feb 07, 2008, 06:06 PM »

What?  Don't horses and donkeys make mules?
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archaeologist
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« Reply #139 on: Feb 07, 2008, 07:54 PM »

no that isn't the point and i couldn't find what i needed to support my point so i am dropping it, just ignore that part of my post {yes they do]
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rumplesnitz
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« Reply #140 on: Feb 07, 2008, 09:09 PM »

Okay, thanks - I was hoping I hadn't put my foot in my mouth again... :'(

E-mail me the point you were thinking of and I'll try to help dig something up about it if you'd like.

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« Reply #141 on: Feb 08, 2008, 02:22 PM »

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I was hoping I hadn't put my foot in my mouth again

so far as far as i know youhaven't done this.  if you are refering toour other discussion, i am still waiting for your reply.  i presented a source to backup my position and waiting for your rebuttal.

as for hybrids let's just say that the failed experimentation only proves the process  God created back in Genesis 1--'and they all reproduced after their own kind' (slight paraphrase from memory)
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rumplesnitz
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« Reply #142 on: Feb 09, 2008, 03:59 AM »

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I was hoping I hadn't put my foot in my mouth again

so far as far as i know youhaven't done this.  if you are refering toour other discussion, i am still waiting for your reply.  i presented a source to backup my position and waiting for your rebuttal.

as for hybrids let's just say that the failed experimentation only proves the process  God created back in Genesis 1--'and they all reproduced after their own kind' (slight paraphrase from memory)

I stuck it in there pretty good with my first go at the Talpiyot Tomb.  But I did get to learn some stuff from some earnest study afterwards.  I remember deciding to ignore you at some point but don't remember which topic thread that was.  That may be where you're waiting for a reply at.  Gimme a reminder and I'll go back and see.  You won't necessarily get a rebuttal, I mean if you're right, you're right - I'm here to learn! ;D

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archaeologist
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« Reply #143 on: Feb 09, 2008, 02:18 PM »

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I remember deciding to ignore you at some point but don't remember which topic thread that was

why?  because i disagree with you and your perception of the ancient world?  in that book i mentioned, it also talks about how some things were mass produced so i think i made my case.

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rumplesnitz
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« Reply #144 on: Feb 09, 2008, 11:09 PM »

Oh don't be so sensitive you goose!  I'm picking on you!  Tell where that thread is so i can go back to it... :o
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archaeologist
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« Reply #145 on: Feb 11, 2008, 02:39 PM »

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I'm picking on you

a few words of advice-- be smart, don't.
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rumplesnitz
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« Reply #146 on: Feb 12, 2008, 05:01 PM »

Whiner. :-*
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archaeologist
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« Reply #147 on: Feb 13, 2008, 03:29 PM »

that was uncalled for.  this is supposed to be an academic site not a place to pick on others.
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rumplesnitz
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« Reply #148 on: Feb 19, 2008, 10:13 PM »

Archie, please - lighten up a bit.  This is a great place for academic interaction - but not a theological gulag, okay?  The reason I pick on you is because you take on a priggish and self-important air and insist you are right about everything without providing sources any more than what's-his-name, your arch-nemesis.  You might not mean to give that sort of impression, but there's more than me that thinks that of you.  Of course I tend toward goofy and ambivalent, but I'm not a scholar and I admit it.

Now before you take those comments personally and feel insulted, just let me say I'm not trying to go there.  You have provided some real gems that I have followed up on and I'm grateful for that.  So I'm not trying to be offensive toward you, just to help you get over yourself.  Of course you're not at all obligated to give a rat's patoot about my opinion, but at least I've tried to help you see where I'm coming from.

About my comment that I once decided to ignore you - how many times have you threatened to ignore someone on here?  And yet you still do converse with them.  Same-same here is the point I was attempting to make.  We don't have to agree, but dialog is kind of the point of the whole thing so if we all really do ignore each other who will we talk to...

So again, what is the topic title where you are waiting for me to reply to a post at, please?  I'll go and see what I can learn from it.

Thanks,
BJ


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archaeologist
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« Reply #149 on: Feb 20, 2008, 12:23 AM »

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The reason I pick on you is because you take on a priggish and self-important air and insist you are right about everything without providing sources any more than what's-his-name, your arch-nemesis

i will disagree with you and try to remind you that not all of us stumble in the dark but are lead tolearn things which in turn we must pass on to those who get to avoid the struggle we have had to endure to learn what we did.

i read both secular and christian works and i do not always put the source down because it is the Holy Spirit leading me to learn things and that is hard to cite.

let me give you an example of why in another thread i can boldly state that mormons are not christians and can do so without references;

1. the mormons have added their own scriptures and revelations to the wrods of the Bible.  big no-no.  when the canon was set it was done so under strict criteria by a counsel of qualified men from different cities of the known world.  for the mormon scriptures, it was one man only.

2. let's compare paul and joseph smith.  paul had a public conversion and met Christ, then he studied for 2 years and finally another man brought him to the apostles who laid hands on him and sent them out.  paul was not starting another religion but was inspired by God to teach beyond the basics which His followers needed to know.

Joseph Smith had no conversion experience, did not meet Christ did not repent from his evil ways and claimed he met an angel who gave him special glasses to read golden plates and only his wife and another man helped him.  he did not work and study God's word but wrote new scriptures and another man did not bring him to solid christian men but he convinced men he was right (or put them in on the con).

Joseph Smith did not give up his evil ways, did not walk with God as paul did was not inspired but plagerized and re-worded actual biblical passages.  no group of men saw the plates he used to write and no man sent him out but he used his abilities to start a new 'religion' which had  personal gain involved.

3.  The mormon 'religion' is a schizoid belief as if you note in the new thread on marriage you will see how joseph smith's words contradict the teachings of the Bible.  the other books held in high esteem by the mormon faithful and the Bible are at odds with each other.  if joseph smith was rightm then they all would be complimentery and cohesive not contradictory.

then you have the problem of the 1800 year gap between the writings of the Bible and the books of the mormon 'faith'.  such a disparity , if true, would show God to be a mean , masochistic person who allowed the church to stumble around in the dark for centuries until he decided to allow a unrepentent sinner complete His words.

it doesn't fit.  this is a synopsis of all the evidence which, with a bit of common sense, anyone can find in any textbook or book on mormons and the Bible.

i am leaving out many details but you should see from the example that the mormon 'religion' is not christian without me posting a sources (the sources are very common works) but you can always ask me to produce titles like rambo preacher and i do.  doesn't hurt to ask but i will tell you that much of it is right in front of your eyes if you would only look.
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