Josephus

[Brianroy]

In order to not take away from TeH 2, I have opted to open a Josephus thread to talk about his relevance to archaeologically relevant passages, etc.


The Jewish encyclopedia from over 100 years ago comments:

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"The Antiquities of the Jews" … This is the most important of his works, and, indeed, one of the greatest of all antiquity. It comprises twenty books, and is so arranged that it might be placed side by side with the Roman history of Dionysius of Halicarnassus, which likewise consisted of twenty books. It was the purpose of Josephus to glorify the Jewish people, so often misunderstood, in the eyes of the Greco-Roman world. He wrote it in the thirteenth year of Domitian (93) and in the fifty-sixth year of his life. It commences with the creation of the world, and carries the history of the Jews down to the outbreak of the war in 66. In this stupendous work the individual books are preceded by an introduction which briefly indicates their contents; but it is doubtful whether these originated with Josephus. The work falls into the following divisions:

(a)
Book i. ch. 7 to Book xi. ch. 6, parallel with the books of the Bible from the creation of the world to the rescue of the Jews under Artaxerxes in Persia. Here Josephus desires only to reproduce in Greek what may be read in the Hebrew Scriptures ("Ant." Preface, § 3; x. 10, § 6). He has, however, omitted or endeavored to excuse whatever might give offense.


...Importance for Biblical Exegesis.
Although Josephus' treatment of Biblical data is very free, it is of importance for the history of Biblical exegesis. He gives the number of books in the Bible as twenty-two, whereas the Rabbis count twenty-four.

...The command in Ex. xxii. 28 is used by Josephus for the following excellent doctrine: "Let no one blaspheme those gods which other cities esteem such; nor may any one steal what belongs to strange temples nor take away the gifts that are dedicated to any god" ("Ant." iv. 8, § 10), which was not in the spirit of the Pharisees toward idolatry. He says that the whole city was interdicted to leprous persons ("B. J." v. 5, § 6), whereas it was only the Temple which they might not enter.

...He had intended to write a separate work on the laws; and therefore he treats some briefly, while others he does not mention at all.


...His Biblical Interpretation.
When his people in Galilee wished to compel two Gentiles, who had come to them, to enter the Abrahamic covenant, Josephus would not permit it, saying, "Every one ought to worship God according to his own inclinations, and ought not to be constrained by force" ("Vita," § 23). The Jews were to have one holy city, one temple, and one altar ("Ant." iv. 8, § 5). That he interprets even Biblical subjects freely only to please his Greek readers is seen in his mention of the destruction of Sodom as though it were only a mere incident that people would casually relate ("B. J." iv. 8, § 4). Otherwise, he naturally holds that the Biblical books "are truly reliable" ("Contra Ap." i. .



In the difference of Josephus counting of the holy books, it is pre-Jamnia. As well, he reckons only 4 portions to the Psalms, leaving the fifth out...suggesting that Psalms 107-150 in his day (though cited by Jesus in 27-30 A.D., and accepted as holy and inspired without reservation by Jews and their religious authorities then) were not used in Temple Services beginning perhaps in the 50s until the Temple's demise in 70 A.D., because these Psalms especially contained that which were too Messianic and confirming of Jesus of the Christians.  The inference, therefore,  is that the fifth portion not being reckoned yet as holy by Sanhedrinal decree.  If Antiquities dates to A.D. 93, this may mean that the Jamnia re-vetting of the Old Testament as we know it today, was not yet an event, and post-dates Antiquities publication into the libraries of Caesar.

 The canonical status of Ecclesiastes and the Song of Songs, was added as holy scripture...and the fifth portion of the Psalms received their former rank at post-93 A.D. Jamnia / Yavneh. This we learn through using information supplied by Josephus with other source accounts.

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Josephus and the Bible text:

Another poster asked me to address some textual differences between the Temple Torah Scroll Josephus had and the Masorete copy our Bible is now based upon.  Let me start with just one word, by example, in Genesis 18:1 (for now).  That word is PaTaCH...door-way or opening of the tent.



Genesis Chapter 18 - Parallel Hebrew Old Testament


katapi New Study Bible: Parallel Greek || English Old Testament with Book,Chapter Selection



What does Josephus say?


Book 1, Whiston Chapter 11, Whiston Section 2

Brill translation:

196  After God had issued this judgment concerning the Sodomites, Habramos, noticing three angels and he was sitting near the oak of Mambre before the door of his courtyard 609


Brill notes:
609 Abram cannot be associated with homey details that lack nobility. Hence, when Abraham entertains the three angels here, he is seated not in the tent door (Gen. 18:1) but before the door of his courtyard ( aulas), in a Greek type of house (so Thackeray, ad loc.). For similar reasons Josephus omits the detail about Abraham’s inviting them to wash their feet (Gen. 18:4).

It appears that the best answer to this dilemma is that there was a lacunae in the much later centuries Hebrew /Masorete primary copy for Petach (Pe-Tav-Chet), and that Josephus' Temple Hebrew  copy actually read the letters of "Chet-Tsaddai-Rosh" or"CHaTSeR", ... which is consistant with the Greek LXX "skanas", since its synonym of  (Gr.) "aule" (and sometimes theGreek "epaulis") is a proper translation of (Heb.) "CHaTSeR".    CHaTSeR is indeed translated with the LXX  (Gr.)"skene",  and when we take  Josephus' account in conjunction with its use with "skene"/ "aule"  as also describing the courts / courtyards of the Holy Temple of Jerusalem  in I and II Kings, and Ezekiel...we can better understand and almost comically forgive Josephus for our ignorance (as it were).

In this above example of Genesis 18:1, we see a series of tents set up within a surrounding tent wall enclosure, for Abraham's residence at Mamre.  In this, our understanding is enriched by a Hebrew word picture which went beyond a simple one word translation. 

That's just one example. 

Peace.

[archaeologist]

here is a book to read which will give an idea of what was available in the time of Josephus and the extent availability:

Libraries in the Ancient World by Lionel Casson

excerpt from pg. 57

But what happened when shops or individuals were in some town nowhere near alexandria or pergamun? were there local libraries, or libraries in nearby cities? Libraries, though not to be compared with great royal collections, could  at least supply the works of the standard authors/

we have on straws in the wind to go by, but there are enough toindicate that quite a few cities boasted libraries.  like so many libraries today, these were supported , at least in part, byprivate charity, by donations from the citizens.  in fact it is because of this that we know about them: donors were rewarded by having their names inscribed on stones that were posted prominently in a public place, and some of these stones have survived

the ancient world was not void of resources nor were they off limits to the general public and viewed by special permission.  seems access was quite free, just like today.

[Brianroy]

The issue of Genesis 18:1 between Josephus, various LXX manuscripts, and the Hebrew texts, is related to several streams of Biblical learning. 

Firstly, the example of more information in the understanding of the words of the older texts, which might have been made generic or less potable, though accurate,with changes in Hebrew letter formation and language definitions.

Second, the Tabernacle in the wilderness for the Temple, may have been largely followed by Abraham himself, as a single word in Josephus and the LXX appears to better preserve for us. Thus, when we read of the Temple's tabernacle in the Wilderness...we should not only think back to Moses, but to the Hebrew father Abraham himself, and his tabernacle set upat Hebron, etc.  So we can now also read passages such as Psalm 27 reflecting Scripture inthis new light...seeing a pre-Sinai, pre-Egypt Tabernacle tradition.

Thirdly, in archaeology, we have the debate over a pseudo 650 year nomadic interim, in which those in the Levant ceased to build, or simply disappeared.  The level of sophistication of Abram goes to this matter, and may also extend in its influence to Paul and some traveling Christians in the New Testament era...but that is an after-thought.  With Abram, we have 3 or 4 generations and a window of only a couple hundred years in which tent dwelling by his family was preferable...but the biblical texts appear to point us to more permanent settlements in this same "tent-dwelling" period.   

Thus, in just one verse comparison...we may have to rethink even the Tabernacle origins past the post-Exodus Sinai in 1551 B.C., to a more distant past -- to a visit by HASHEM to  his friend Abramin circa 1961 B.C.
(or a little before).

Peace.

[Elijah]

so am i correct to see that this topic is the tabernacling dwelling (wandering pickup and settle) of Abram should be seen as not HIS ONE tent but an actual circle or city of tents which would have a courtyard and entrance.
Interesting. Should re-title the topic as Abram's tabernacling tent a forerunner to the tabernacle of Moses.

I would like to add that the holy and most holy 2:1 ratio is as the Great Pyramid and its ark (cedar chest to save and preserve what is in it - - like Noah's ark, and baby Moses ark) was used to store the bible books and thus very strongly implies the cement casing in the Most Holy of the Great Pyramid was also originally intended for texts and papyrus not a Pharaoh who MAY have been put there after it all failed. From what i have read, NO EGYPTIAN PYRAMID HAS EVER HAD A MUMMY IN ITS OBSERVATION CHAMBER (it is theory and claim only) other than Palenque Mexico.

[notalent]

so am i correct to see that this topic is the tabernacling (wandering picup and settle) dwelling of Abram should be seen as not HIS ONE tent but an actual circle or city of tents which would have a courtyard and entrance.
Ineteresting. Should retitle the topic as Abram's tabernacling tent a forerunner to the tabernacle of Moses.

I would like to add that the holy and most holy 2:1 ratio is as the Great Pyramid and its ark (cedar chest to save and preserve what is in it - - like Noah's ark, and baby Moses ark) was used to store the bible books and thus very strongly implies the cement casing in the Most Holy of the Great Pyramid was also originally intended for texts and papyrus not a Pharaoh who MAY have been put there after it all failed. From what i have read, NO EGYPTIAN PYRAMID HAS EVER HAD A MUMMY IN ITS OBSERVATION CHAMBER (it is theory and claim only) other than Palenque Mexico.

Perhaps some will remember the late Dr. Gene Scott making much of the great pyramid as a physical map of all human history, from the fall to the future kingdom, by counting a pyramid inch as equal to one year along some of the connecting tunnels inside, with interpretations of the symbolism of the various chambers.  I read the book he wrote/co-authored on loan from another guy, but have forgotten most of it.  It seemed compelling on the surface, but I couldn't figure out why it would matter whether these things were known or not (supposing they were even true).  If there is no application for faith and practice, perhaps it's only seeing what one wants to see in such an object.

Anyone else seen that data?

[Elijah]

yes i have seen pyramid timelines along sketches of the pyramid. Charles Taze Russell (1876-1916 AD) was impressed by it, and he foolishly felt the pyramid was built for God by Shem Melchizedek, not Nimrod. The implication that it was a good tower versus a bad tower. The WatchTower takes the opposite stand now as a tower of religion (Satan) as all towers.
But i am a realist. Yes i beleive the pyramid was an astral observatory to predict the future, but not using numerology, it predicted the future by a calendar, while observing out the telescope shafts. There was no forecast of counting inches, and saying these things will happen at these inches. What wei ignore is the fact that Egyptians knew rolling a cubit diameter stone measures 11 cubits and rolling a cubit radius stone measures 22 cubits. Instead we act like its the great mystery, and they knew what pi was better than we know pi.
Give Genesis and those centuries of Babel and Ur and Egypt credit for their real science and not the pseudo-science we fabricate about  those cities. Most myths are astral records that instead are made into real characters or gods doing things. An example, a siren is a horn blowing a warning, it is not a mermaid, that horn is a natural horn made by winds in caves telling you there are cliffs and that the ocean washing into these caves will pull the ships into the rocks. So dont be curious about the singing and come close to them.

[Brianroy]

Elijah,
       You "get it"  slightly when you write: "Should re-title the topic as Abram's tabernacling tent a forerunner to the tabernacle of Moses",   and then you slip away.

  If we press the issue, Abraham's Tabernacle was similar in its basic layout/design to the later Mosaic setup.  

Since you and notalent desire a theological instruction, whichJosephus might label as "philosophical"...and others may as well be so curious ... I will now address how the Holy of Holies (of the Mosaic Tabernacle), and the testimony of Jesus goes back to Genesis 1:1.


Because Genesis 1:1 is about Jesus

In the New Testament, we simply see revealed what was in the Old Testament just somewhat concealed. As we move from Torah to Writings to Prophets in the Tanach, we see this pattern of unfolding insights, revelations, and happenings consistently supporting the New Testament through many legal and prophetical precedents.

But in the end, as Revelation 19:10c informs to this effect, that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit / true-intent of Bible prophecy. Our focus is ever on Him, and the revelation of Him in our hearts, minds, and lives -- unto eternity.

In Genesis 1:1 very first 9 letters, "beresheith bara"

we have the three letters of bara,

followed by Shin-Yod-Tav (a garment; something that is put or set, and/or thorn bushes),

followed by three letters "bara" again.

This changes to an understating of “bara” – Creating, “Sheith” a garment” or we could even say a curtain or tent.


It is then followed by the explanation for this purpose, G-D was creating the Heavens and the Earth. [Cf. Isaiah 40:18, 21-22; Job 22:12-14; Job 26:7-11.]

"Creating as a garment or tent, G-D created theHeavens and the Earth."


Psalm 68:
4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol Him that rideth upon the heavens by his name YaH, and rejoice before him.

8 The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of G-D: even Sinai itself was moved at the presence of G-D, the G-D of Israel.


In Psalm 68:4, YH rides the Heavens, and then in verse 8, drops them over Sinai like a tent, a blanket, or garment.

 Rashi concurs with this in his commentary on Exodus 19:20's "Vayeired YHVeH al Har Sinai", saying Heaven was made like a bedspread over Sinai, because G-D still talked from Heaven (Exodus 20:19) WHILE BEING PRESENT AT SINAI!


In other words, the pattern at Genesis 1:1 is that of the Holy of Holies. Heaven as the ark of the Covenant, and the Earth as Eben Shethiyah (the rock upon which the ark sits), and the curtains of darkness as the bounds of an enclosed universe within a greater universe of light, as Job alludes in his prophesying.  

In Gematria, Alef is the abbreviation of G-D's NAMEs of El, Eloah, Elohim.

Eben as Alef -BeN (G-D's Son: Jesus) and Shethiyah as Sheth: a Garment or 6th of, and YaH: YHVeH.

 By itself, like Jeremiah 2:13 and 17:13, Shethiyah is seen a the source of living drinking waters.

And we know that this rock of waters known by Moses and Israel, is clearly designated by Paul as a prophetical type of Jesus Christ, because Sheth can also mean that which is "put and substituted" as Christ our substitute and redeeming sacrifice, the Lamb of G-D, was for us.

So with Beresheith, we read bara sheith, and see the shethiy (the warp weave of a garment) through the whole Bible in Jesus (Revelation 19:10c).

Isaiah 26:1's use of "sets" designates this same thought, that Yeshua is set as a garment as our walls and ramparts. He it is who is the prophetical Ath/Oth, that is the special coming sign of G-D present in Genesis 1:1, for which the universe and all Creation was made for.

At the Creation, in John 1:3 , of YHVeH Messiah, we are informed twice that “all things through Him ?g?n???” -- all things came into being at a point in time when the “Beginning” was in a new state, and still unfolding into existence (i.e., ginomai being twice in the aorist).

“Egeneto” is followed immediately by an emphasis on ginomai’s perfect tense: “gegonen”. This tells us the continuing existence of the new state that has come into existence, as being upheld by the word of His power (as it were).


And on and on we can go.

The learned rabbi is to read Genesis 1, and use the model of the Holy of Holies, in which Heaven (the ark) and Earth (Eben Shethiyah) are brought into existence.

Through this, the one who is sent by HASHEM will also pass along the teachingthat it is HASHEM who issues those living waters out of Himself, creates a Creation to take on a Ministry and Mystery of Redemption in a form of matter that was never before existing. Trumpeting forth in clearness (Job 26:13's use of Shiprah) a mystery of redeeming not only those who will be created and fall away, but save also those cherubs (priests) and angels (levites) of Heaven who have not fallen away.


Rashi and First things first: Resheith.

Rashi, in explaining Genesis 1:1 teaches us that wherever the word resheith occurs in Scripture, it is in the construct state. Rashi then gives us some examples, such as:

Genesis 10:10, "The beginning of (resheith) his kingdom,"

Deuteronomy 18:4, "The firstfruit of (resheith) thy corn."

Jeremiah 26:1, "In the beginning of (resheith) the reign of Jehoiakim,"

In this, Rashi teaches us that G-D created the Universe in the Beginning, and like Paul, rules that the creation occurring in Genesis 1:1 is likened unto the "firstfruits" of Creation. In I Corinthians 15, Paul informs us:
Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept... Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (vv.20,23).

And so it is at the Creation. For 3 days and nights there is no day or night as we know it. The stars and planets are non-existant...for only the singular Earth rests in a Universe filled with darkness. The Spirit of G-D acting as the Shekinah or dwelling presence of G-D over the Earth, is as the Day. The Spirit does NOT shine forth into the deep, but radiates of His own accord, as the skin of Moses radiated forth like a many times magnified "glow in the dark" / "neon" light stick (perhaps)...but did not penetratingly "beam" forth like the rays of the sun (or as a powerful flashlight) into the darkness.

In effect, the Creation begins with the death of Jesus, being in the Earth 3 days and nights, in the very design of the Creation.

But then the rabbins would also state that what is left out -- is about as important as what was left in. The question leads us from Genesis 1:1 to ask...where did the waters come from?

Rashi: "The Spirit of God was hovering on the face of the waters, and Scripture had not yet revealed/proclaimed and called out [as though read aloud] - (HaMiQRA) when the creation of the waters took place -- See now, you must now have learned from this that the waters preceded that of the earth.


In other words, if we know that Heaven has water because it flows from G-D's throne (Rev. 22:1, Eze. 47:1, Jer. 2:13 & 17:13, etc.). Therefore, citing these verses, G-D on His Throne must be present at the Creation.

The water from G-D's throne gushes forth as rain (Psalm 65:9, Revelation 22:1, Joel 3:18). Through 2 Corinthians 5, and many other passages like the gathering of the Sons of G-D in Job 1:6, and 2 Chronicles 18:18, we see the Throne of HASHEM is the destination of all G-D's own. In Job 38:7, we see that the angels (sons of G-D) and the cherubim (morning stars) are present at this Creation of the Earth (vv.4-7). We know that these creatures are implied, because (again) there are no constellations or material matter present in the universe outside the confines of the Earth until the 4th evening/day.

The "hovering throne of Glory" gushes forth a river to add water to the dust called  Earth, but NOT rain in Genesis 1.

Rashi takes this "Throne" hovering aspect on in discussing verse 2.

And the Spirit of G-D was hovering -- The Throne of Glory was standing in the air and hovering over the surface of the water by the breath/Spirit of the mouth of the Holy One, Blessed is He, and by His statement, like a dove that hovers over the nest.

The rabbis discuss this "breath aspect in Chagigah 15a and Midrash Tehillim 93:5. They essentially rule out the impersonal of the word "breath", and insert the translation that by the Spirit the Throne of Glory was hovering.


In John 7, we read:
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

In other words, if the Throne of Glory is present, and the waters flow from G-D's throne in Eze. 47:1, from the Father and the Lamb in Rev. 22:1, and the pre-incarnate Jesus is the one from whom the water flows at the Creation of the world...what is Genesis 1:1 testifying to?

1 In the beginning [Bere-sheith] God created the heaven and the earth.

or

1 Creating a garment [read also as "bara-sheith"]
G-D creating the (coming prophetical) sign [bara elohim ath] / [ath/athah - ath/oth]
of the heaven and the earth [ha-sh'mayim ve'ath ha'eretz].

Hence, from Genesis 1:1, we are informed of a new thing...the incarnation of G-D, covered with earth (a new thing, a new material) , and an act of atonement of some sort by doing so...for the creatures of Heaven...when Genesis 1:1 is viewed in confines of Temple Service, as being represented by the Holy of Holies: the ark of the Covenant resting on the Earth of Eben Shethiyah. The blood is sprinkled on the mercy seat, G-D dwelling in the midst of the cherubim, and atonement is made.

If the life of the flesh is in the blood, and water makes up blood, and Jesus gushed forth blood and water at the Cross...then we are made up as creatures of the spiritual blood of Heaven...waters being a type or representation of blood in Heaven, and the life's blood (if you will) of all material Creation.


FIRST CAUSE of Creation:

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning G-D created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of G-D moved upon the face of the waters.



In Colossians 1:15, Paul refers to Christ as the "prototokos pases ktiseos" -- "(the) One who is pre-eminent above and over all Creation and its Creatures."


If we compare this to Revelation 3:14's "he arche tes ktiseos", we see that Jesus is (again) the Source or First-Cause of creation; and that is why He has pre-eminence: because - "in Him, life was; and the Life was the Light of men. All things were made by Him. And without Him, was not made any (thing) that was made." (John 1:4,3). But Jesus Himself testifies:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[In Greek transliteration: En arche een ho logos kai ho logos een pros ton Theon kai Theos een ho logos]

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


In John 1:3, using the word "ginomai" (the Greek verb which means "to become"), we are informed that it is through the Logos (of John 1:1) that:

"all things through Him CAME INTO BEING (egeneto) and without Him CAME INTO BEING (egeneto) not even one (thing) that CAME INTO BEING (gegonen)."

Ginomai in the aorist is egeneto...referring back in Time to a point when the "beginning" or "New State" was occurring or still unfolding into existence.

After the aorist, we move from egeneto to gegone...the perfect tense of ginomai. Gegone speaks of the continuing existence of this Beginning is dependant upon the Logos of John 1:1. That is,

"He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing." (Job 26:7)

The hanging of the earth and all existence, is continually up held by His spoken word and the power of His will, the same will as that of the Father. The new state of a planet hanging on nothing, continues even to this day...and not just the earth, but all constellations.

Science dares not explain this mystery, because it defies what we know and perceive as science, and the laws of Creation ofwhich we are now aware of.

When John uses protos in Revelation 1:5, when he quotes Messiah Yeshua as “the First”, he does not just explain Messiah as being just a “first one” born from the dead, but reaches for a deeper meaning.

Christ is “before the birth” PROTO  TOKOS (prototokos in its two-word form) of all Creation, as Paul cites in Colossians 1:15. He bears forth the Creation of the universe by His power, the power of the spoken word (Hebrews 11:3, Isaiah 14:24). This we see from the introduction in Genesis 1:3...and G-D spoke....

The Father thinks it, the Son speaks it into existence (John 8:28,38; 12:49; 14:24; Psalm 119:160, 33:6,9).  Even as the  “Oneness of GOD”  is testifies to in John 10:30, Deuteronomy 6:4, Zechariah 14:9.

The Holy Spirit is the Agent / Person of the G-Dhead sent by both the Son and the Father. He is present at the Creation (Genesis 1:2), fills the Universe (Psalm 139:7), is called the source of all gifts in the Church (I Corinthians 12). He is deified in the fact that lying to and blaspheming Him in particular, is to lie to and blaspheme G-D (Acts 5:3-4; Matthew 12:31). He is the ever active co-agent with Christ in redeeming man to the Father through regeneration and sanctification (John 3:5; Romans 1:4 and 8:11; I Corinthians 6:11; Titus 3:5-7; Ephesisans 3:15-17).

The Holy Spirit care-takes and aids in the order of this Universe as the third person of the G-Dhead, guiding -counseling - teaching of Yeshua (as a mother would teach her children, perhaps), but operating within the parameters of glorifying the Son -- Yeshua, Jesus Christ (Romans 8:2; Isaiah 40:13, John 16:13, Psalm 104:1-6, Job 38:5-6, Genesis 1:2, Revelation 22:17).


And although it was NOT the first Nicene Creed that brought the apologetics in explaining the Holy Spirit, but rather the subsequent councils such as Antioch in 341 and Constantinople in 381, which appendaged the Nicene Creed against the Heretics and Schisms wasting the Eastern Church...as we see in Genesis 1:2, the Holy Spirit, along with Jesus, is present at the Creation, because He is the third member of the Trinity.

And the ehad praise of the cherubim/seraphim creatures about G-D's throne, who say Holy, Holy, Holy...because they praise G-D the Father, G-D the Son, and G-D the Holy Spirit at the very throne of G-D. The same throne that was hovering in Genesis 1:2...and the same 3 Holies who are 1 G-D, mentioned by G-D Himself as being at the Creation in Job 38:4-7.

The sacrifice of praise being the reason for the Heavenly existence of angels and cherubim, now takes a more tangible form in this Creation.

In KoRBaN, that sacrifice or even attitude of humility "which is to be brought near, up to, alongside"...
-- we have the alternative possibility of viewing this word as: KoR, meaning "cold" {as a body that is dead}; and BeN, meaning "Son". And we affirm, that Christ had died {was cold}, Christ is risen {made alive, hot again, because G-D is a consuming fire}, and Christ will come again. In Revelation 1:17-18 says, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Thus, the true sacrifice or offering that is brought forth will be that Son who is destined to die as a sacrifice brought near to G-D. Hence, the attitude of humility -- of lowness -- is the attitude of Christ to the will of the Father, and shows that even KoRBaN testifies of Him.

In John 1:1, we see that Yeshua is "pros ton Theon", meaning "up alongside and with G-D"; and "kai Theos een ho Logos", meaning "and G-D was {found in fullness in} the Word {i.e., the Son}." He is Korban.

John 1:1 therefore explains HOW Yeshua can be Immanuel, without taking away from G-D the Father or His substance. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are with the Father as ONE Co-existent, One Ehad (not yachid) -- united in complex unity -- G-D. Hence, to believe in Trinity is rational, because it is biblically sound in its accuracy of showing what the Bible itself teaches. And when viewed as a whole in context, we see that the Bible testifies of itself that Jesus is not only present in Genesis 1:1...but that Genesis 1:1 is about Jesus.

[Brianroy]

A look at the Shekinah Presence of G-D

Rashi says...in the Hebrew... that the Shekinah [the dwelling cloud of G-D] speaks. In using this language, the Jewish sages concur that he [Rashi] simply meant 'G-D'.
That is, Rashi assigns a presence of G-D as being G-D...a person...not an "it" or "force".

So if the Shekinah speaks, and Rashi isn't banned by the Rabbis for saying thus...what else about this Voice does Rashi say, so as to infer "personhood" upon what might otherwise have been written off as Semantics in the English translations?

In Genesis 1:2, we are in the midst of 3 nights and 3 days of Christ's coming time in the tomb. It is being played out on the macro-cosmic scale. For 3 nights and 3 days we have the unformed earth, like a blob of clay, just sitting and hanging upon nothing in a darkened universe. Is it hard or is it soft? Is it hot at the first or is it cold? We don't know. But G-D is likened unto a potter, and we the clay. We are told we come from the dust of the earth, in the Bible. But how is the clay made fit for the potter's use? By water.

As stated, the water has to come from the Throne of Glory. G-D speaks forth the creation of this matter called "the Earth" or "the land" or "the ground", first.

Before all other matter is created in the Universe, we are made or created out of the literal first material substance -- that is, we are of the first matter -- in this Universe. The moon and the stars are secondary creations, and secondary or alien matter to us. They are similar and yet different...like the angels and cherubim are both similar and different, and compared to us as the constellations are compared to the Earth. Behold the mystery.

As the water poured forth from the Throne of Glory, a new thing happened in this universe...air. The spiritual waters became transformed into the physical...and somehow the Earth absorbed the waters of the Throne of Glory like a sponge. It grew soft and pliable. It became prepared, like our hearts when it hears the gospel and the water of the Living Word, prepared to receieve life.

The Holy Spirit was hovering at the Beginning over the face of the deep, with the Father and the Son, and moved upon the faces of the waters. Notice that the waters also represent the water of G-D's word...the announcing of the Good News of Jesus Christ in the Bible. Notice that, at the Beginning, the Holy Spirit moves forth with the Water of G-D...and at the end of days, He again, rains down with His presence as likened unto waters:

"And in that Day, it will be that the mountains will rain down YHVeH's Spirit, as though flowing down forth an intoxicating new wine;

and the hills will gush forth and flow with fatness; and all the deep channels of Judah shall flow with Living Waters;

and an over-flowing river shall pour forth as an artesian well-spring from the mountain of G-D -- from out of the House of YHVeH will it go out --

and a refreshing and a watering will it give, as it fills even the Valley of the Pierced Tree."

(Joel 3:18, my translation, fully amplified including the Hebrew word pictures).

Whenever there was, and is, and will be life brought forth in this manifest Universe, the Bible explicitly informs us that both Yeshua / Jesus (the Word) and the Holy Spirit (Wisdom) are to be there.

Again, it is a mystery like the Holy of Holies. The Menorah and the 7 Spirits of G-D (Revelation 4:5) lay outside the veil...and yet G-D the Lamb, like the Word of John 1:1c, possesses the fullness of the Deity of G-D as G-D from G-D (Revelation 5:6, John 1:1b), and chooses to make his dwelling place within the veil...between the Cherubim, upon Eben Shethiyah (upon the Earth).

Great is the Mystery...yet still showing us that Genesis 1:1 is revealed in Christ.

The Voice of HASHEM

In Genesis 3:8,
"They heard the VOICE of HASHEM G-D walking in the Garden toward the direction of the sun; and the man and his wife hid...."

Rashi comments:
"They heard...I have come for nothing but the simple meaning of Scripture and for aggadah, which resolves the words of Scripture with each word stated in its proper framework, and with its correct meaning.
'they heard the VOICE of the Holy One', Blessed is He, 'WHO was walking in the Garden'...toward the direction of the sun ...in the tenth (hour)."

Judaism says G-D is incorporeal, and invisible...hence, unable to walk in a visible manner. But this is refuted in Genesis 18 and many passages of Tenach. Rashi knows this and refutes the notion. This is why he sets the commentary of this above verse of Genesis 3:8 up in this way.

In the passage of Genesis 18:1 ff., HASHEM appears as a man...HASHEM appears as a man...HASHEM appears as a man to Abraham on the plains of Mamre. He is called "The Holy One" by Rashi. This HASHEM who appears as a man, is accompanied by two angels of Lot's deliverance.

There is absolutely no doubt, over and over, that Rashi views this HASHEM at Mamre -- and His Garden appearance also -- as visible.

Hence, Rashi himself, among the greatest of rabbinic commentators, recognizes the mystery of the VOICE of HASHEM as HASHEM in these two passages by its simple meaning and non-halikah interpretation.



Jewish Theological seminaries or rabbinic scholars on Rashi...these teach that the "Voice of HASHEM walks in the garden, to which Rashi affirms as 'walking', but then he leaves it alone as unexpounded upon", or words to this effect.  Rashi then goes on to talk about walking into the sun in the 10th hour of the day.

Chasidic editions of Chumash with Rashi and elucidations upon Rashi have also stated to this effect also.

The Noachide site for Judaizing the nations also takes such a view of this VOICE walking, and are puzzled by it as well.

The mystery dissipates when we  check out Exodus 19:19 a little closer, and how "b'qol" is used and translated as well.

One might also ask themselves:  Is it "in", "with", "regarding", or "having come as" in the "beth"...which also means "house" when separated > cf. Psalm 26:8, 84:4, 118:26?


Questions, questions:

Expanded with word pictures from the Hebrew, we read a section of Genesis 1:2 as:

"And the Earth was then in a state of existence that no longer exists, being an empty and barren place of nothingness -- desolate and without any life whatsoever; and the face immediately above the deep was darkness."

Have you ever asked yourself, "Why did G-D ever give us the moon?" Is it because we are mainly composed of and made up of water, and that there is this delicate state of balance which needs to counteract a singular direction of gravity? Is it a means in which moods and other forces can be manipulated in us? Or is it something else?

The Bible tells us in Genesis 1:

14 And G-D said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And G-D made two great [HaGaDoLIM] lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And G-D set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and G-D saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


The moon is meant to be a sign that is made great, "gadol", as a sign upon the Earth. It is a sign that will "grow in greatness and importance", after the Hebrew meaning of the word. And what is that importance? To become as a sign to remind us of the Earth as it was in the Beginning...an empty and barren place of nothingness -- desolate and without any life whatsoever.

However, unlike the Earth, the moon was not glowing of a radiance of the presence of G-D the Holy Spirit. The moon shines in the darkness because of the rays of the sun...an external source...like the Earth had at the Beginning.

When Moses was with the pre-Incarnate Jesus, the G-D of Israel, for 40 days, his face shone the light of G-D as if his skin had absorbed that light (Exodus 34:29). G-D is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all (I John 1:5). So by example, we probably have the same circumstance in which the skin of the Earth "shone" because of G-D's presence.

As we gaze upon the light of the moon...remember the Creation. Think upon the phonetic simultude of the English words "Sun" and "Son". And think upon this verse:

And Jesus [the Son of G-D] spoke, saying,
"I am the LIGHT of the world. Whosoever follows Me will never walk in Darkness." (John 8:12)

[Elijah]

That is a whole lot of detailed religious concept for the simple statement NO MAN SHALL COMPLETE HIS HOUSE UNTIL FIRST THE HOUSE OF GOD IS COMPLETE

a finished complete earth with finished complete familes,
the stones being the very people themselves living in a city or house that covers all the earth.
(takes bow)
Thank You Thank You

Your detail is appreciated but like the law of Moses
which can be very detailed and still allow loopholes of crime,
the simple truth is all Jesus tried to show us.
So i tried to be simple here and as usual ended up with a paragraph after my signature.

[Brianroy]

The demonstration of biblical and textual knowledge with a proper and correct interpretation was, in the above instance, a neccessary act.

Now, no more of this "pyramid of Giza" cult gibberish, or attempts to sabotoge this thread.      Thanks.

[Elijah]

well i have no knowledge of any existing CULT who publishes that the two chambers of the Great Pyramid are the same 2:1 ratio as the tabernacle Most Holy and Holy. Any culture or scholastic structure would be fools if upon deciding whether Moses existed then didnt face the fact that there is absolutely no way he could not be an Egyptian citizen and not know the Great Pyramid existed or be affiliated with Pharaoh or its priests and not know the chamber was in two segments (single Most Holy room and double Holy room). The exception is the Great Pyramid's runs north and south and your facing south as you enter, while the tabernacle was set up each time east and west facing west when entering. I am not sure you have proof Abram's tabernacle was set up east to west.
In either case, whether you are offended by knowledge such as this is not merely as offensive than if you were referring to me and my contribution of this info by calling it CULT and GIBBERISH.

Indeed i will agree much cult and gibberish exists about the Great Pyramid, but if you refer to my noting the likeness between pyramid and tabernacle then you have judge my own findings and not some theory or cult concept that you can dismiss with labeling as SABOTAGE. It is not sabotage to liken the tabernacle to other structures. And i feel it proper to like the tabernacle of an Egyptian named Moses to a specific pyramid that he himself saw and touched than just imply he had some holy rendering on a vellum architect plan for a tent from Abram 400 years earlier.
May i correct you, I do not seek a theological instruction. When i do slip into morality on this site, it is not with attempt to change the science of physics into a science of philosophy/psychology but rather it is my attempt to say that as the phyiscal paradise (archeology) was destroyed by mankind's lack of spiritual moral cooperation, so too at this site or anywhere people metphorically get zealous and they kill it. I do not wish to get any more religious than that by saying science reality is destroyed by the MORAL person who feels he has to educate everyone for God.
If i step too far into the philosophy i am told and you have that right, i appreciate it, because i too must tolerate THE PREACHING about things not valid. So i bite my tongue not to get offensive, making a war of text posts.
But i stand by the truth, the tabenacle center matches the Great Pyramid center, and i am not so sure if Moses came to life and told you so, whether you would agree with Moses correcting you or dare to tell him he misunderstands God and needs you to explain it to him to bring him to Jesus. No gibberish, no cult, archeology of the bible includes Egypt includes pyramids and even includes all nations Mayan and China who descend from Noah.

As for Josephus he is a genius in seeing some explanations of the bible while other ways he lacks. He has 4 different chronologies back where 2 go back to different Floods 3460 BC (2256 AM) and 3060 BC (2656 AM). And a third even younger by using 1556 years and he cant decide whether kings were 477 years or 470 years. Simply he is no mathmatician at all; a typical match for most religious leader positions who pretend they have mathematical and calendrical skills. It is Jospehus who says two towers were built before the Flood one to pass thru fire and one to pass thru water. This is not in the bible because all the true scholars of 4000 years knew it to be hog wash. So it is one thing to find tabernacle an interest and another to make it the beliefs of BAS. I think your thread that you may fear someone is sabotaging has gone outside the tabernacle and shikinah and has gone into the moral philosophy of a path to God. The thread is becoming religion not topic, and you claim Elijah and NoTalent have asked for this religious philosophy, I am still searching to where you feel we asked for it. You are free to post even if we didnt ask for it, but dont lie and say we asked. I have no interest in being called Pyramid Cult Gibberish.

To take opening words and say it is God's tabernacle is not something i disagree with. But it does border on those who count every 10th word and say it spells the man of 666. It is religious philosphy and really hasnt said anything about the physics of archeology such as Eden or the planet or creation or location or where it is or what happened etc. You have stepped into what the tabernacle whether Abram or Moses or Jerusalem or the universe means for us spiritually and  this is not a spiritual forum to feed me your beleif and then call me a saboteur when i liken it to a pyramid.

[Brianroy]

Elijah,
  The Watchtower Witnesses, whom you seek to impress with the Pyramid paganism of Charles Taze Russell, is a cult.   Pyramid Egyptology Theology is alien to the Bible.

   We've gone over this ground before. 

CRI's Flood of Noah v. Flood of Gilgamesh

You stated previously:

Call it psychic, call it luck, call it Satanic,
beware March 10 betting odds successful Osama BIn Laden attack
shut your computers off before then. stash some cash.
Live Free Die Hard

Patristic etc. Revising of Chronolgy from NT to Egyptian Exodus of Hebrews

And this bit:

After March 10 we will tax the LDS church.
I already wrote the Watchtower to tell them to solidify all
electronic assets, and be ready to be willing to pay tax
as all churches will, or say they will until they all kill off
each other around the world. Soldiers like Romans win,
and religion like Jerusalem of 70 AD will lose.
The beast is about to eat the church.
LDS first  hehehehehe and you guys keep saying its the
7 hills of the Pope.

Mormon cultures are not a form of biblical archaeology


And you also wrote this, showing yourself a zealous Watchtower advocate:

i note my coworker wears a Wicca
pentagram that i told her is an astral tool
to calculate 243-year Venus which will FULL
circle in 1215 years but have the same Egyptian
dates in FULL circle 1458 years. Upon showing her by
drawing timelines,

i then note it will be three cycles of 1458 from
the Flood's Jan 6 to 2006 AD (Julian Jan 6)
and i predict Al Queda threat on Jan 19.
I then declare that a March 10 will come
that will wipe out world trade
and i get a write up at work for doing this on
company time.

2006 AD March 10 = Phamenoth 1 (J. Feb 25)
2007 AD March 10 = Phamenoth 1 (J. Feb 25)
2008 AD March 10 = Phamenoth 1
(in leap years our March 10 = Julian Feb 26)
2008 AD is the 94th year of the 1914 AD I.B.S.A.
as was Artaxerxes 32nd year 443 BC

Jehovah gives me the lunar date corrections for
Artaxerxes, 2 weeks before March 10 of 2008

and I send them to the WatchTower to show them
they are the New City Jerusalem,

Phamenoth 1 arrived, world trade collapses

So the Watchtower Society is the New Jerusalem, and the center of your aspiration?

============================================
There are other forums and places with info to address such issues other than BAS.  One helpful link is at:

 ATRI Journal Online Article Index

 If you wish to talk Bible and archaeology, that's great.  But you are invited to start your own thread, and do so there.

Thanks.

[Elijah]

This Biblical archeology includes the study of Egypt which is mentioned everywhere in the Bible. The opinion of whether pyramids are pagan or not is your perogative, but you have atributed your personal judgement as stating it is my pyramidology. You have made a suable statement there. Further, my leaflets said nothing about not crying for me, what i say to you... regarding whether you shed a tear or not, does not mean i papered my neighborhood with it. So now on two counts you have lied with intent to harm. You feel the phrase false prophet is a great name for me so you can call me a liar, yet never did i personally pick anyone in this membership to judge as false liar worthy of death. You just have. I suggest action be taken. There are also numbers in all things, whether it be calendars or dates or astronomy or time and you are throwing your personal opinion solely at me and me alone as occult and pagan and satan. Again i question your peroigative to speak this way as a BAS member.
There shall be no attacking of a person here is the terms of service.
You also accuse me of trying to impress others, and you claim that anything on a pyramid would impress the WathcTower or is an attempt to do so. You have so many successive lies about me it is a machine gun of bullets you are intending to spray at me. This is definately not BAS membership behavior. I support variety thought here without attacks like this, and i knew your concept of being revelater of God (versus my concept of being revelator of God) was bringing you to the state of ruling this forum.... (i refer not to ruling by ideas and concepts posted, but by your outright telling everyone how it will be with them or you say they are not with God.) You have just said that to me. I expect a posted retraction.

You also lie about the Bruce Willis movie because my prediction that the dollar will be wiped out by internet as the means to wipe out world trade has existed since Sep 11 of 2001. I shouldnt have to tolerate your line for line attack of lies concerning every aspect of me. I wouldnt have to type this defence if what you say was not a barage of bullets in the form of lies.

Feel free to repost the virus attack all you want it could still be another Sep 11 very soon as 7 years or even next March 10. But Brian i bet you could have me dead before March 10, and then say it was just a fluke if it happens.

Wow as i read on, hey thats cool... so i had the artaxerxes dates two weeks before March 10. Thanx. I am so overwhelemed these days with more than i can handle its nice to know facts like that. That one i'll thank God for turning your attempt to destroy into a God send for me.

Rick Jackson i suggest you go before your board and ask them if comparing the temples of the world or the towers is a nonBible affiliation to this site. As for me i beleive it all descended from Noah, and for another person to reveal that they know nothing about these other religions and nations and chronologies supporting the Bible... are just angry that they dont feel they need to know it as i do, and so declare it as pagan and cult and heathen and wicked and evil so that they can claim they use BAS solely to build up the Bible.... is it Bible or is it themselves. I would rather die than emphasize anything i know as being glorious light of God, and to be posted here as condemned satanic by someone who does think THEY are the gloroius mouth of God...is wrong (matters not whether i be offended or not; what matters is they are controlling the forum with a billy club and iron rod).
If someone rules us like a king, let it be Rick Jackson and not Brian as second Christ of God).

Brian hates the WatchTower so much that he is affiliating me with it when i am not affiliated. And he is saying i advocate Russell's thoughts on pyramid, when i do not advocate that President Russell's pyramid prophecy, and nor does the WatchTower advocate it anymore. He is using it as a hate tool. Discipline the man. I have done no wrong here to suffer by Brian or BAS.


THIS IS ALL BECAUSE BRIAN SAYS A THREAD ABOUT TABERNACLE CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO MENTION PYRAMID. and he says that is sabotage, then adds words like pagan and heathen to tabernacle information.
He says pyramids being pagan means they cannot be mentioned in BAS.
He says its a change of topic to compare structures of worship such as tabernacle versus pyramid.
He says my belief that WatchTower is Church-Christ is too brief a statement and that he needs to thus affiliate me with that WatchTower and use it as excuse to rant about it in pages and pages of other websites about the evil WatchTower.... i could care less what you say or post about the WatchTower. Dont make me any part of a rant about it in either direction good or bed. I have done no predictions since Rick Jackson emailed me and told me that the March 10 thing will be the last of such posts, AND yet here you now rant to destroy. What is being done wth YOU.
I wish to see it.

Here is my one return reply to YOU. Historian Jewish JOSEPHUS is apostate, he rewrites everything in the bible having the Persian kings in the wrong order, changes the years and dates of the wall, and the Flood, and many other events of Ezra and Esther and Nehemiah. And are we to now rant and say this means it is not BAS nor BIble or that you are an apostate pagan for reading Josephus. I DO NOT MAKE THIS JUDGEMENT AGAINST YOU, it is merely the return YOU should get, as you attempt to do to me or to other BAS members, let this all be done to you.
Some one make it true... let those who rule this site be God and mediating christ to stifle the devil when it dares to make such a post as you have here. I dont see you posting the Venus dates of Amizaduga published by the Chicago Oriental Institute as i have, to freely give to the public.  Nor do i see you publishing the lunar dates from the net (and their alternative calculation) as i have provided here from scholastic texts. I provide the dates known... they are not my calculations. But you as a liar i see why your family was removed from your WatchTower you belonged to and now hate so much. Leave me alone. Rick Jackson has not given you the permission to rehash my prediction posts of March 10 so you can call me satan and occult. This archeology posts are not for the purpose of sorting BAS memebers as being of God or Satanic. Your personality is sufficient for anyone to see. I lost my membership for a month just by calling someone stupid, and now wher eis your membership which dares to do this mass hate. YOU CALL THIS SCHOLASTIC PROFESSIONALISM

[Brianroy]

Egyptian religion as related by Herodotus:
The Internet Classics Archive | The History of Herodotus by Herodotus

Observation by Herodotus concerning pyramid supported:

Herodotus's theory of how the pyramids were built gets a lift | Discover | Find Articles at BNET

NOVA Online/Pyramids/Who Built the Pyramids?

An opposing view of pyramid-building from Herodotus is offered at:

 Rediscover Ancient Egypt - The Egyptian Pyramids at Giza, Sakkara, Dahshur, and Meidum


Instead of book sources, links (such as I do above), Scripture and quotations from Scripture...we get Elijah saying:

the phyiscal paradise (archeology) was destroyed by mankind's lack of spiritual moral cooperation

You also lie about the Bruce Willis movie

  Is Elijah now  saying there was no similarity between his 'Live Free Die Hard' mantra associated with his failed March 10 prophecies and elucidations at the end of his posts,  v. -  the same title of the Bruce Willis movie, the plot of the Bruce Willis movie, and his predictions?

Live Free or Die Hard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Brian hates the WatchTower so much that he is affiliating me with it when i am not affiliated.

By calling a city block in Brooklyn as the New Jerusalem -- "I send them to the WatchTower to show them they are the New City Jerusalem" in his own words...

...by the very act of warning the Watchtower Society....

by advocating the views of its founder -- "yes i have seen pyramid timelines along sketches of the pyramid. Charles Taze Russell (1876-1916 AD) was impressed by it, and he foolishly felt the pyramid was built for God by Shem Melchizedek, not Nimrod. The implication that it was a good tower versus a bad tower. The WatchTower takes the opposite stand now as a tower of religion (Satan) as all towers. But i am a realist. Yes i beleive the pyramid was an astral observatory to predict the future"  in his own words...

...by his rejoicing for the destruction of Mormons when you wrote "The beast is about to eat the church.  LDS first  hehehehehe"...

he now cries "foul" and "victim"?   Give us all a break. 

Let him blame himself for his own statements in print, which HE posted, and is either unable to deny or unwilling to credibly back-up.

Elijah, as he labels himself, is the source of his own chronology, with no links, and what was it...only one lone book of 60 odd calendars? 

When in one post, he states that a company he once worked as an electrician for milked his "12 hour days", that event that happens to him,  now affects all 6 billion plus of us on Planet Earth?   

This whole thought "Butterfly effect" (another movie) process is the the apparent bedrock of his reasonings and false chronologies imprimis;  and for him to say we are forbidden to address this major flaw because it  is not relevant? 

 His and the life he lives, is his own source.  If he sees a show with Donny Osmond, it affects -- according to him -- the whole Universe and the chronology calculations he goes on and on and on and on about.  He becomes as if he were the Christ substitute that demands to sit on the throne of all our lives, whether he realizes this forwardness or not.

So I say: Elijah,  give it a rest.

You've flubbed this argument before you even began it.  This is as close to a retraction as you can expect: You keep to your threads that you started and continue, and I will keep to mine.  Those threads made by another, in which we both post...we'll just ignore each other.   Thanks.

[Elijah]

Brian says the lie:
Is Elijah now  saying there was no similarity between his 'Live Free Die Hard' mantra associated with his failed March 10 prophecies and elucidations at the end of his posts,  v. -  the same title of the Bruce Willis movie, the plot of the Bruce Willis movie, and his predictions?

The similarity is why it was declared you make movies too late to see what is in progress. You the liar post to seek the members of this group to see me as beleiving this thing after the Movie instead of before the movie on Sep 11 of 2001 when i told everyone world trade cannot collapse by a plane thru a building, they will use the internet. Yet you post your lies just as you are the one who would have killed Jesus when it is recorded you said he was going to destroy their temple in 3 days. This is you, this is what youre doing, and with no shame, Judas you dont even flinch, you do it with a kiss. Retract your lie dude, because this forum will know i have been stating you must prepare for the Bruce Willis story since 2001.

The next RANT that you continue to stain this forum with is repeating yourself saying i advocate Russell's pyramid thesis which is not Russell's, but it belongs to Piazzi Smyth which proves you know nothing of pyramid archeological development in 120 years. Posting your links means nothing. I can Google search the word pyramid and in 2 seconds paste links on every internet page listed on Google about it. Means nothing of what you know. NEXT you claim i advocate the pyramid thesis which states that the inches are years as if to say 12 inches of pyramid are 12 years of prediction. THis is a lie, i have not advocate that trash at all which is Piazzi Smyth's but you defer it to Russell so you can spred WatchTower hate.

NEXT you accuse me of Mormon hate; you imply it is Mormon members i predict will be killed by government. Stick to the topic dude. ITs about the collapse of the dollar. The church referred to by me as losing money and facing war with government is the financial bank such as LDS but also Catholic. Again you know nothing if you are not aware that LDS has more of its money in america than the Catholic empire has in america. It is not selective to ONE church, but it is one church that will be hit hard... as well as capitalist scientiology, and pentecostal 10% tithings.

You do not have the right to slam anyone commenting on your thread anymore than mr.archeo does to everyone. This is not a convention of heated debate, and i encourage Rick Jackson to edit away. The scientific books of Nobel conventions dont post in its pages all the angry scum people stood up and threw at each other. You are attempting to show your hate upon me for my comparison of the double chamber of the great pyramid with the double chamber of the tent tabernacle and i see no one disciplining you for your attempt to prove there is not similarity by calling me heathen pagan and satan and astrologic and false prophet. These are names and you have yet to be punished the 30 days that i was once punished for saying someone was being stupid.
This is not right. This needs to be acted on.