WatchTower JW Angelo Palego's www.noahsark.it

[Elijah]

Truth is NEVER found in a book about the meaning of words. You can not standardize the truth in words. Yes the truth has a standard; yes it is The Word. Even without God and without Jesus the truth is infallible. Because the definition of truth is reality. yet some will say that is YOUR truth. They mean it is a lie that you see as truth. But it is also possible for your truth and my truth to both be real. We all know the command from God is eat or you will die (starve). Doesnt matter how you eat, there are elements and compounds that must be eaten. This is a truth or fact no matter whether you beleive in a God or not. That truth is a god over you. And you can skirt it by saying it can be put in your blood but not your mouth, but that only refines the truth into more precise truth that the food must go into the cells not the mouth. In fact if you could get it into the cells without blood, that too would be eating as the command says you do or die.

So we have the Bible saying this. Because a prophet perceived he should not eat or it would kill him. Another saw this as unreasonable of God, and so said eat, and the man died. This is not some story line or one time divine incident. The scripture says Jesus did many things not written because all that he did of God could not be contained in all the books of the world. This is so of TRUTH and being THE WORD, you can not contain it nor define it and say okay it is complete, all there. This is not an insult to say the Bible is not complete nor never will be, but rather to say you are on the wrong path if youre looking in the book or in the words. The words are written only to give you the right spirit of what to do or be like.

The Greek word hades is not hellfire. It is an underworld of both living in torture and living in paradise. But just because the new testament is in Greek does not mean Jesus beleived in hellfire when he used the word hades. If you insist he did, you are absolutely making your own definition by saying he accepted Greek beleif instead of Jewish, and you are also saying you can drop the paradise out of Hades and just refer to the torture hellfire side. What gives anyone that freedom to claim Jesus meant hellfire by definition, if you refuse to accept Greek definition of the word that it also included a paradise side down under there.
Thus back to point one, you cannot define truth by the languages of others who have lost truth and have only the pagan definitions left to define it.
The fact remains that no ocean of salt water has ever been high enough to prodice salt water springs.
But I will Google right now.
http://www.island-ikaria.com/nature/springs.asp
okay now go find me the Hebrew word for this salt water spring. If not then you are incorrect that fountains cannot be salt water. And I then repeat that if you are 700 miles from the ocean you are not going to know these salt waters are the ocean.

So I again rely on Jesus who said to me that you can disagree with Father and disagree with Son, it is whether you disagree with the holy truth that permeates by holy spirit. You can be only wrong for so long before you suffer permanently from the wrong.
Jesus refers not to blaspheme with mouth, but with mind, with wrong false beliefs, he refers to error and sin as blasheming and shows that it is repentable before death occurs from it. But what you dont change becomes eternally a fact of the past caused by you or me or us.... and thank God it is true with Him too that what he does becomes fixed unchangeable. Amen.

ELIJAH
DO YOU AGREE NOW WITH THIS FACT THAT TRUTH IS A LANGUAGE, ABOVE ANY LANGUAGE?    if it is,  then why do you resort back to the language to define that truth.
You know buddy (you and Mose are like my buddies here, you force me to sharpen my mind by disagreeing), but you need to see that science too keeps saying this will hapen to us, and this will not happen to us. Is no one right? Will no one ever be right? Faith says God reveals, and someone gets saved. It doesnt have to be me, and it doesnt have to be the bride of Christ. But sir, in all due respect, it is, and you will see it is so. Even if my part is something I dont like,
and resent now being here between rock and hard place.

[notalent]

The fact remains that no ocean of salt water has ever been high enough to prodice salt water springs.
But I will Google right now.
http://www.island-ikaria.com/nature/springs.asp
okay now go find me the Hebrew word for this salt water spring.

Doesn't matter if it's salt or not.  It's water underneath land.  That's the word picture in Hebrew.  There are word pictures for the sea, but they are not found here.

If not then you are incorrect that fountains cannot be salt water.

But I didn't say it couldn't be salt water.  That's you putting words in my mouth.  I said it couldn't be the sea. 

And I then repeat that if you are 700 miles from the ocean you are not going to know these salt waters are the ocean.

But it would be easy in Hebrew for the Spirit to tell the reader that it was the sea rising up to drown the land, or the land falling into the sea and rising again.  If this is what happened in reality, then we must conclude the Spirit had some reason to characterize events in a way that gives a different image than what actually happened.

That's all I'm really saying.  The Bible says one thing.  You are suggesting something other than what is being said.

ELIJAH
DO YOU AGREE NOW WITH THIS FACT THAT TRUTH IS A LANGUAGE, ABOVE ANY LANGUAGE?    if it is,  then why do you resort back to the language to define that truth.

You might ask yourself why you would put words in other people's mouths.  You might also ask yourself that if the same Spirit that animated Moses to get his words wrong (you remember making that claim?) is animating you to be a prophet, is He also getting it wrong with you?  Wouldn't that be a fair question?

You know buddy (you and Mose are like my buddies here, you force me to sharpen my mind by disagreeing), but you need to see that science too keeps saying this will hapen to us, and this will not happen to us. Is no one right? Will no one ever be right? Faith says God reveals, and someone gets saved. It doesnt have to be me, and it doesnt have to be the bride of Christ. But sir, in all due respect, it is, and you will see it is so. Even if my part is something I dont like,
and resent now being here between rock and hard place.

Well, these questions about canopies and fountains are clearly secondary and not essentials of the faith.  So you are welcome to hold the tsunami hypothesis.  It's not a deal breaker with God, and so not with me either.  There are more important things in life than wondering if the trees in the Garden had more than 6 rings. 

[Elijah]

well trees in a garden with 6 rings would be 6 years not 6 days.

But the spirit told one apostle they were with Jesus going into Jericho and the spirit told another that they were going out of Jericho. The spirit is not a person it doesnt decide what to tell someone. The someone has the spirit to move them to write the truth they see, and it is the truth from where they stand, not where i stand nor you stand, or fellow apostles stand.

And if we are going under this year into the water, then it does matter, and I am willing to die to stand behind this. I have a request from Obama as Moses had with Pharaoh trusting Pharaoh wouldn't kill him nor imprison him. Yet i see Jesus as a man who could not be imprisoned despite they did kill him, where they didnt kill Moses, nor Mohammad. And I do see myself as John where as they did also imprison him and kill him but he lived in that he refused to change his story and so do I because of all I do know, of which you do not. (Yes, I am aware you know things I dont, and I dont judge these things you know as irrelevent to the world, but they are irrelevent to what i must do with what i do know of which are many things you do not know.) Only I in the world trace ALL calendar back to Noah's 360-day calendar while each nation thnks its calendra is from God and that all the others made up stuff when confused and leaving Babel. Doesnt matter what scholar of what field, everyone has excuses and alterrnatives but i see a whole puzzle put together in pieces that fit both the world's atheistic data and the WatchTower skeletal timeline of that Bible. I cannot back off of my commissin though I hold off very chicken of it. I dont think events I predict or I cause would convince you. In fact teachings by Jesus did not convince 12 men, the miracles did. The truth alone would never have phased them because like you and they and all of them out there you expect to see miracles as the proof... even I turn to Jehovah and say where is my miracle or I will give up here.

ELIJAH
I like Mose here, he encouraged me to do it, to find if it is of God or not. Who do you encourage. Or do you damn everyone when despair surronds them.

[notalent]

well trees in a agrden with 6 rings would be 6 years not 6 days.

But the spirit told one apostle they were with Jesus going into Jericho and the spirit told another that they were going out of Jericho. The psirit is not a person it doesnt decide what to tell someone.

One should understand that these are two separate healings of blind men in the vicinity of Jericho, and not conflicting accounts of the same healing. 

As for the Spirit telling someone something, consider there were no human eyewitnesses to the creation.  Adam was created last if you'll recall.  So any human recording the creation narrative is having it told him, presumably by the Spirit.

And if you think about it, Noah is not an eyewitness to the flood.  He was shut up in a box for the whole thing.  The details of the breaking of the fountains of the deep were therefore told him (and passed down to Moses eventually), sight unseen.  And the Spirit giving that witness is no country bumpkin describing what he doesn't understand.

The someone has the spirit to move them to write the truth they see, and it is the truth from where they stand, not where i stand nor you stand, or fellow apostles stand.

And if we are going under this year into the water, then it does matter, and I am willing to die to stand behind this. I have a request from Obama as Moses had with Pharaoh trusting Pharaoh wouldn't kill him nor imprison him. Yet i see Jesus as a man who could not be imprisoned despite they did kill him, where they didnt kill Moses, nor Mohammad. And I do see myself as John where as they did also imprison him and kill him but he lived in that he refused to change his story and so do I because of all I do know, of which you do not.

It seems unlikely someone would kill you over the date of the flood or any other such unimportant detail.  Dates don't matter one whit.  Unless you want to claim you know the day, if not the very hour.  We all know it's the season and we make ourselves ready accordingly.  Knowledge of specific dates is nowhere demanded of us in scripture.  We will not be judged on such matters.  Otherwise one might as well tell us to tithe our mint.

(Yes, I am aware you know things I dont, and I dont judge these things you know as irrelevent to the world, but they are irrelevent to what i must do with what i do know of which are many things you do not know.) Only I in the world trace ALL calendar back to Noah's 360-day calendar while each nation thnks its calendra is from God and that all the others made up stuff when confused and leaving Babel. Doesnt matter what scholar of what field, everyone has excuses and alterrnatives but i see a whole puzzle put together in pieces that fit both the world's atheistic data and the WatchTower skeletal timeline of that Bible. I cannot back off of my commissin though I hold off very chicken of it.

At the Bema seat, this commission won't be mentioned, but rather the fruit of one's life.  Getting one's sums correct about dates isn't on the list of standards being measured.

I dont think events I predict or I cause would convince you. In fact teachings by Jesus did not convince 12 men, the miracles did. The truth alone would never have phased them because like you and they and all of them out there you expect to see miracles as the proof...

Uh, no I don't.  And I'll thank you in future not to make such an imputation.  I have witnessed no miracles as such, neither do I expect to see any.  As I've mentioned before, miracles don't convince anyone.  Just read Exodus.  At best they are signs of authority.  (I see no signs regarding your "commission", BTW.  Oh, but you're a John the Baptist, who did no miracles.  But then anyone can claim that.)

even I turn to Jehovah and say where is my miracle or I will give up here.

In scripture, it is the faithless who seek a sign.

ELIJAH
I like Mose here, he encouraged me to do it, to find if it is of God or not. Who do you encourage. Or do you damn everyone when despair surronds them.

I encourage all to persue the fruit of the Spirit.  Best to come to a change of mind on that score.  It's never too late to get on that most important track.  That emphasis will be honored, blessed and rewarded now and forevermore.

[Elijah]

One should understand that these are two separate healings of blind men in the vicinity of Jericho, and not conflicting accounts of the same healing. 

I had been told and read that it was teh same account of the same healing on a road into leaving new Jerico into old Jericho. These cities do have inner old and outer new, and they also have roads that go out city limits back inot city limits. It was a matter of me or others creating a contradiction to accuse the Bible, but rather the point that truth is there if it is one event, and truth be there if you say two events. But it may be a lie to claim it two events if it turns out it is the nature of the road and new or old city that made the difference. That is the issue, claiming water trapped below earth that is now up here and therefore doesnt happen again. However, land shows submersion dozens of times before the Flood (all before Adam) and you have Creationists saying it was all just one time, The Flood.

As for the Spirit telling someone something, consider there were no human eyewitnesses to the creation.  Adam was created last if you'll recall.  So any human recording the creation narrative is having it told him, presumably by the Spirit.

And if you think about it, Noah is not an eyewitness to the flood.  He was shut up in a box for the whole thing.  The details of the breaking of the fountains of the deep were therefore told him (and passed down to Moses eventually), sight unseen.  And the Spirit giving that witness is no country bumpkin describing what he doesn't understand.

I disagree. It is your eyes and your spirit telling you saw nothing as he was shut up in that box. Yet my perception of the same  versus says the raven came to and fro outside the ark until they unloaded it. With no where to land, obviously the raven stayed on the roof eating the insects that every floating vessel has taking a break from flying. In fact a global ocean meant there were alot of outside refugees on the roof of that ark, too tempting for any bird to come back in. Tell me the spirit told him this and that he did not see this for himself.

[notalent]

I disagree. It is your eyes and your spirit telling you saw nothing as he was shut up in that box. Yet my perception of the same  versus says the raven came to and fro outside the ark until they unloaded it. With no where to land, obviously the raven stayed on the roof eating the insects that every floating vessel has taking a break from flying. In fact a global ocean meant there were alot of outside refugees on the roof of that ark, too tempting for any bird to come back in. Tell me the spirit told him this and that he did not see this for himself.

It seems to me that the birds are doing all the seeing for Noah, because of the location of the opening.  He cannot see enough through it to make his own determinations about the environment.  And it being a requirement to be shut during the inundation, I think it more logical to suppose he saw precisely nothing until he opened the door much later, and even then seeing but little.

[Elijah]

Well you have Angelo Palego who assumes the ark did not ground on peak and slide down, but rather grounded upon an island shore like so many others envision, picture, imagine, depict in animations, etc. The simple fact is the grounded 74 days before mountains (two) were seen. And so freedom of thought allows people to imagine that if the first peak could be seen before the second peak which is dated, then for sure the peak could be seen before it ever grounded. This isnt so, because the only scientific real true way you can know that water covered one mounatin by 15 cubits is if you grounded on the peak when it was 15 cubits under water.

Simple fact, the water cannot be 15 cubits over all mountains on the same date, same hour, same time. Mountains are not all the same height. Fact two, the 15 cubits ends on day 150 when the ark grounds, thus the arek is still 15 cubits over on day 150 as it was on day 40 despite no rain for 110 days. This means it was the bottom of the ark that floated 15 cubits below surface the whole 150 days and so at all times was 15 cubits (or more) over all land whether it be coastal Surupak or Euphrates Valley or Mount Ararat. Thus Angelo Palego is like you in that he says well the window didnt face Mount Ararat for the 74 days after it grounded. How could you ground 110 days since the last time it rained, and not look out to see a mountain, yet look out later and see both mountains. Ah thats right, Pelego says Noah opened up a different window then. Why didnt he open that one up then to begin with; when you ground, doesnt the sloped deck floors tell you which way is up hill to the peak. Doesnt hold. I didnt find the answer by making up stuff like this, his nor yours. I sat in perplexity by finding fault with anything i could possibly make up until the real answer was simple and obvious. That is what we need to do in all things and we then see the hour.
Jonah did not say oh look the city was not destroyed um so i am not a false prophet it means they repented in heart and God didnt do it. Wrong. How does such a man then get his book written, he doesnt. Nineveh made changes, real changes, so it changed what Jonah predicted. These were changes that Jonah and Nineveh could both see would prevent the destruction. Then Jonah was angry because Nineveh gives its credit to its own scholars, or scientists, or prophets, or anyone but that Jew Jonah who has his nose into the pagans making himself dirty even by his own law to be talking to them.
UNDERSTAND NOW
predicting makes anyone a hated man.
Ask the weather man.
Like gypsies, or psychics, wrong or not
they all go back to ask more and
then call them trash as they walk away.
Cher - they all come around when the sun goes down
and they lay their money down.

[notalent]

Well you have Angelo Paleg who assumes the ark did not ground on peak and slide down, but rather grounded upon an island shore like so many others envision, picture, imagine, depict in animations, etc. The simple fact is the grounded 74 days before mountains (two) were seen. And so freedom of thought allows people to imagine that if the first peak could be seen before the second peak which is dated, then for sure the peak could be seen before it ever grounded. This isnt so, because the only scientific real true way you can know that water covered one mounatin by 15 cubits is if you grounded on the peak when it was 15 cubits under water.

Simple fact, the water cannot be 15 cubits over all mountains on the same date, same hour, same time. Mountains are not all the same height. Fact two, the 15 cubits ends on day 150 when the ark grounds, thus the arek is still 15 cubits over on day 150 as it was on day 40 despite no rain for 110 days. This means it was the bottom of the ark that floated 15 cubits below surface the whole 150 days and so at all times was 15 cubits (or more) over all land whether it be coastal Surupak or Euphrates Valley or Mount Ararat. Thus Angelo Palego is like you in that he says well the window didnt face Mount Ararat for the 74 days after it grounded. How could you ground 110 days since the last time it rained, and not look out to see a mountain, yet look out later and see both mountains. Ah thats right, Pelego says Noah opened up a different window then. Why didnt he open that one up then to begin with; when you ground, doesnt the sloped deck floors tell you which way is up hill to the peak. Doesnt hold. I didnt find the answer by making up stuff like this, his nor yours.

I sat in perplexity by finding fault with anything i could possibly make up until the real answer was simple and obvious. That is what we need to do in all things and we then see the hour.

Yet this method is limited by one's imagination.  And with all due respect, I often find yours rather too limited, and your assumptions too weak to be of service.  I don't think the purpose of the text is to stir up speculations about things not in the text.  That is just eisogesis, i.e. reading into the text our own limited preferences of imagination.   Hermeneutics 101, e.g. classic rookie mistake.

Jonah did not say oh look the city was not destroyed um so i am not a false prophet it means they repented in heart and God didnt do it. Wrong. How does such a man then get his book written, he doesnt. Nineveh made changes, real changes, so it changed what Jonah predicted. These were changes that Jonah and Nineveh could both see would prevent the destruction.

You're speculating and inventing again.  Tsk, tsk, tsk.  Jonah didn't say that if they would repent, God would relent.  He said in 40 days the jig is up.  End of prophecy.

Then Jonah was angry because Nineveh gives its credit to its own scholars, or scientists, or prophets, or anyone but that Jew Jonah who has his nose into the pagans making himself dirty even by his own law to be talking to them.
UNDERSTAND NOW

Thanks for supplying the missing content from Jonah.  But I think the story is more self-consistent without your contradictory additions.  But as you suggested before, the writers moved by the Spirit often get things quite wrong.  That must be the explanation why your additions don't jibe with the text.

predicting makes anyone a hated man.
Ask the weather man.

They don't hate the weatherman because he gets it right.  They hate him for the mistakes.

Have your forecasts all been mistakes?  Wouldn't you expect a prognisticator with a batting average of zero to be not respected?  Or should such a predictor continue to chastise his non-believers?

Like gypsies, or psychics, wrong or not
they all go back to ask more and
then call them trash as they walk away.

On this forum, who has asked you?  You volunteer "information" sans query.   In fact, when people do ask you to shutup, you don't.  If the gypsy fortune-teller gave fortunes unasked, and they were all wrong, the community has a right to ask the fortune-teller to put a sock in it.  Wouldn't you agree?

Cher - they all come around when the sun goes down
and they lay their money down.

If that were the case here.  But it's not.  Nobody here is asking.  It's you who keep coming around, volunteering false prophecies that never come true, and the people are saying, who asked you for these falsehoods?  But you don't stop.  You keep posting mistakes, like a weatherman who doesn't know his own business.

[Elijah]

You keep looking at whether I can predict what is coming, while you ignore that I am trying to base it on a past. A past that I have more acuurate and agreeing between science and Bible than anyone because science wants no part of Bible, and BIble wants no part of science. Or more accurately those claiming to be men of God creationists versus those claiming to be the scientists.

Thank you for telling me Jonah said 40 days. Now I have no issues with you as if you added this, interpreted this, fabricated it; I dont even ask for which chapter and verse, dispite you being wrong in many things, I have no disgust for your way (because everyone I know seems to be that way toward me) and so I accept it as fact that you quoted Jonah as saying 40 days. Odd that I too am on a reluctant trip right now, trying for 40 days. But the point is, I do not demand from you chapter and verse before I beleive, I do not lack faith that you do have value and worth (why would I argue if it is not to get from you, in this fight, the things I do not know). And with this respect for you, though you give no positive additions to the info  (accept I noted a genuine interest in Ararat from you), mostly you come to criticize, but you are unaware that it can be for my good. Why else would Jesus say to a crowd he had condemned with forgive them they know not what they do. I am a condemnor too, but I also know all that people do and say is without thinking and without knowing. They act first. Even I do.

The good people in the world are never asked. The gypsies tramps and thieves are asked first, simple fact, so your pointing out i wasnt asked is not an insult to me, and it does karma back to you on your character (or others) that you would ask them first. Further, this is not about my accuracy in future, but accuracy in past so as to apply to future. Any foresight is developed, you are not born speaking your wisdom as you come out.

May I ask you if this one thing gets your respect.
Who do you know who has taken the Mayan 360-day calendar and found it (being its own kind made up of 20 days) is only 20 days off from the original 360-day calendar of Noah. And despite saying oh this is Rick's fabricated calendar, it matches the morningstar Mars every 13 years. Being one orbit after that one which the Maya use for calendar new year rising of Mars. (An orbit is 780 days, But because Mayan new year is 20 days after Noah's new year, it is 760 days from Mars of Mayan new year to Mars of Noah's new year.) BUT WAIT... before your criticism which likely already replied to before getting this far:  Tell me how is it that the rise of Sothis ignored as current Gregorian August 2 (Julian July 20), is accepted as July 20 in 139 AD, and yet all the scholastic schools and now published books and internet references and Wikipedia all do as scripture states, they have gone back to what was proven false and was vomit and now they eat it, namely 1956 until 1990 it has been astronomically verified that the first dawn sighting of Sothis occurs as an altitude above horizon that must remain the same altitude distance above the rising sun.
This not only means a different date for each city latitude, it also means a drift from July 17 in 2030 BC and 1943 BC and 1872 BC and 1824 BC and 1513 BC to a date of July 18 in 1314 BC until it is July 19 for 539 BC and July 20 for 139 AD where it has been passing the curved maximum of the 6 hour Right Ascension line of 90 degrees longitude and so has remained July 20 for 2000 years. But this means a false year inauguration of 2770 BC July 17 (Parker) at least has a true Julian date as Thoth 1 rather than the vomit they all go back to as 2782 BC July 20 insisting that Sothis is the exact 1460 Julian = 1461x 365 days. Do tell me with something so simple for the whole planet. Do tell me that you would trust all their technology of fine details when they return to such a simple lie because they speak with a big mouth and little what they truly know as fact. Yes, you shame me for my guesses, and mistakes, and errors. But theirs is not an error, it is a choice of let's go back to these false things and beleive them again.
So do you think such ones shoul be exalted above anything I have said. I am not Parker, they spit on Parker, not me. Just as I am not Jehovah (all true proven facts of science), and so they spit on him, not me, as Samuel too realized. Of course you could grow angry and say how dare you, you think that when we treat you bad that it is treating God bad. Humble yourself, any littel guy that is true about God, is it not God youre attacking if you attack any of these? This means you too, may be the little guy who suddenly sees something of God no one sees. Some true real fact important to all people. Should the people all say, oh so you now think youre God?

ELIJAH
in the wilderness rejected, born to be hated
it is truth Jehovah you have given me and
they hate my faults and mistakes so they can
claim these truths are also false.
Let all these nations know that I could nor would
nor will ever be a soldier for any nation but yet
when I die let it be said his blood was as a soldier
for his national kingdom he was ruled by.

[notalent]

You keep looking at whether I can predict what is coming, while you ignore that I am trying to base it on a past.

Well, since it seems to be your raison d'etre, you can hardly blame me.  You are a prophet by your own admission and your chosen nom de plume.  Believers are commanded to apply Biblical standards to that sort of output.  So if your output is not from God, and he didn't tell you to say, Thus Saith The Lord, then it's probably best to not call yourself prophet/apostle, and not assume the name of a prophet.  People might get the wrong idea.  And it would be bad form to criticize people for not respecting you as a prophet, if you are in fact not one.

If you are not a prophet, then it's much easier to discuss your knowledge of dates.  But if one or the other begins to speak ex cathedra, wagging the boney finger as it were, it can be a little off-putting.  And as you probably already know, it's a terrible temptation if one thinks he is arbiter and possessor of some great secret knowledge.   Knowledge puffs up, as it is written.  For this reason, Paul needed a "thorn in the flesh" to keep his pride under control.  I have been guilty of this, I confess.

But you are mostly friendly, even if your forecasts have not been accurate.  It only rules you out as a prophet, which is no shame whatever.  Nobody is, these days, I suspect.  So we should be fine, if there is still profit in discussing things.  I would like to understand better about your emphasis on dates, because it's an extraordinary obsession and perhaps even a talent you are expressing.  I can't judge the talent because your explication of dates and calendars is almost completely opaque to me.  The sentences look all run-on, somehow with few paragraph breaks or elaboration on what is meant or why there is significance.  It is perhaps all calculus to a 4th grader in my case.

That it should be so far over my head makes me suspicious in principle.  The atheist scientists are all about their superior knowledge and IQ, and they are offended that mere hicks and rubes could know the truth, especially ultimate truth (not that many actually do, mind).  That would be unfair, if not illogical, in their view.  Only the smart, elite, creme de la creme should be the oracles of what's what, they think.  Only a rude God would devise such a perverse economy.

A past that I have more acuurate and agreeing between science and Bible than anyone because science wants no part of Bible, and BIble wants no part of science. Or more accurately those claiming to be men of God creationists versus those claiming to be the scientists.

Your purpose in getting the past right is to predict the future right.  But if the end is not benefiting from the means, something seems not right somewhere. 

It's nice to know the dates from the past, if they are knowable.  But these are rarely of importance as to accuracy to the very day.  I'd say the best chance of that is the crucifixion, which happened on a Thursday.  It should be possible to calculate in which years in proximity to 30 A.D. that 14 Nissan falls on a Thursday.  And then one would at least know which year the crucifixion was NOT. 

But even the Magi seemed content to arrive in the "season", and after a couple of years, rather than show up with the shepherds ON THE DATE.  I dare say they knew a thing or two about calculations.  Nobody else seemed to know what they knew.

Thank you for telling me Jonah said 40 days. Now I have no issues with you as if you added this, interpreted this, fabricated it; I dont even ask for which chapter and verse, dispite you being wrong in many things, I have no disgust for your way (because everyone I know seems to be that way toward me) and so I accept it as fact that you quoted Jonah as saying 40 days. Odd that I too am on a reluctant trip right now, trying for 40 days. But the point is, I do not demand from you chapter and verse before I beleive, I do not lack faith that you do have value and worth (why would I argue if it is not to get from you, in this fight, the things I do not know). And with this respect for you, though you give no positive additions to the info  (accept I noted a genuine interest in Ararat from you), mostly you come to criticize, but you are unaware that it can be for my good.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  So it might seem like criticism, but consider that it's more about the citation of perhaps uncomfortable realities.

Why else would Jesus say to a crowd he had condemned with forgive them they know not what they do. I am a condemnor too, but I also know all that people do and say is without thinking and without knowing. They act first. Even I do.

The good people in the world are never asked. The gypsies tramps and thieves are asked first, simple fact, so your pointing out i wasnt asked is not an insult to me, and it does karma back to you on your character (or others) that you would ask them first. Further, this is not about my accuracy in future, but accuracy in past so as to apply to future. Any foresight is developed, you are not born speaking your wisdom as you come out.

It's OK to get it wrong, but it's not OK to say it's definitely not wrong beforehand because you are a prophet.  This implies, Thus saith The Lord.  That's Not OK if it's not from the Lord.  There is no lack of clarity on that score.  It's OK to speculate, and call it such, but don't call a speculation a prophecy such that people are enjoined to stand in their yard with a hole cut in a sheet, waiting for the next advent or something.  Not good.  Bad in fact.

I speculate there's a chance something Biblical will happen this year before, or during the Feast of Trumpets.  The window opened at Pentacost this year.  There are some things that line up if you take certain assumptions.  Could be wrong though.  Probably is wrong.

Count from the date Xerxes, at Esther's request, allowed the Jews in all Persia to defend themselves, and count that out to 9 A.D., when in his bar mitzvah year, Jesus was presented at the Temple and debated with the scholars there.  A hidden advent to them, incognito as it were.   How many "weeks" is that?  So roughly 3 1/2 years from now, December 2012.

Just a thought.

May I ask you if this one thing gets your respect. Who do you know who has taken the Mayan 360-day calendar and found it (being its own kind made up of 20 days) is only 20 days off from the original 360-day calendar of Noah. And despite saying oh this is Rick's fabricated calendar, it matches the morningstar Mars every 13 years. Being one orbit after that one which the Maya use for calendar new year rising of Mars. (An orbit is 780 days, But because Mayan new year is 20 days after Noah's new year, it is 760 days from Mars of Mayan new year to Mars of Noah's new year.) BUT WAIT... before your criticism which likely already replied to before getting this far:  Tell me how is it that the rise of Sothis ignored as current Gregorian August 2 (Julian July 20), is accepted as July 20 in 139 AD, and yet all the scholastic schools and now published books and internet references and Wikipedia all do as scripture states, they have gone back to what was proven false and was vomit and now they eat it, namely 1956 until 1990 it has been astronomically verified that the first dawn sighting of Sothis occurs as an altitude above horizon that must remain the same altitude distance above the rising sun.
This not only means a different date for each city latitude, it also means a drift from July 17 in 2030 BC and 1943 BC and 1872 BC and 1824 BC and 1513 BC to a date of July 18 in 1314 BC until it is July 19 for 539 BC and July 20 for 139 AD where it has been passing the curved maximum of the 6 hour Right Ascension line of 90 degrees longitude and so has remained July 20 for 2000 years. But this means a false year inauguration of 2770 BC July 17 (Parker) at least has a true Julian date as Thoth 1 rather than the vomit they all go back to as 2782 BC July 20 insisting that Sothis is the exact 1460 Julian = 1461x 365 days. Do tell me with something so simple for the whole planet. Do tell me that you would trust all their technology of fine details when they return to such a simple lie because they speak with a big mouth and little what they truly know as fact. Yes, you shame me for my guesses, and mistakes, and errors. But theirs is not an error, it is a choice of let's go back to these false things and beleive them again.

I don't disrespect what you say here at all.  Even if I disagreed, I wouldn't disrespect it, truly.  Probably because it falls into my category of non-essentials of the faith.  But in truth I don't understand an of it, what you just said.  I don't know where in scripture is the clue that tells anyone what the date of the flood start/end was, that some star set/rose on that date.  I simply don't know.  That knowledge has not been required of me in order to be approved in the day of judgement.  But I don't doubt it could be a useful date to know for historical reasons, or for getting some sense of the time lapse, even though you can get some sense of that already from the begats.

So do you think such ones shoul be exalted above anything I have said. I am not Parker, they spit on Parker, not me. Just as I am not Jehovah (all true proven facts of science), and so they spit on him, not me, as Samuel too realized. Of course you could grow angry and say how dare you, you think that when we treat you bad that it is treating God bad. Humble yourself, any littel guy that is true about God, is it not God youre attacking if you attack any of these? This means you too, may be the little guy who suddenly sees something of God no one sees. Some true real fact important to all people. Should the people all say, oh so you now think youre God?

I don't know enough about this to give it any importance that one should spit on another for thinking differently.  Of course, if someone knowingly chooses a falsehood because they already published it and need the sales, that's telling about one's character.

ELIJAH
in the wilderness rejected, born to be hated
it is truth Jehovah you have given me and
they hate my faults and mistakes so they can
claim these truths are also false.
Let all these nations know that I could nor would
nor will ever be a soldier for any nation but yet
when I die let it be said his blood was as a soldier
for his national kingdom he was ruled by.

The parts that start with "ELIJAH", seem to be the ex cathedra portion of the post.  If that's not what is meant, please correct me.  It seems like it would go over better if the victimology portion were spoken by another.  I don't remember the prophets complaining too much about being rejected, except when they were losing their grip, and God had to remind them to not flatter themselves.  The original Elijah comes to mind here.

[Elijah]

The original Elijah said I am no better than our corrupt forefathers. By the way, the name Ba' al means The Lord and I say nothing in the name of the Lord because as LORD (master) i find you fail, i fail, and all others fail. So I call him Jehovah for it means what proves to be what it is he is. In this way I accept all that is him, even if it is him and i dont see it, or even if its not him and i am alluding myself to think it is him, i let the outcome strike me and phase me so that i do know him. Versus those who think what is will be means he amkes it all happen, it is all fated and we need not care but accept it is all he wants. Nah, God doesnt decide a dog chewing on your baby is bringing him glory. Because of that we let serial killers who rape and chop go free so that it teaches us God's lessons.  Bcrap. I am offended for Him.

But time does matter. Because it is the curve of the 340 years from 2370 BC Flood to Peleg's death that shows carbon-14 is toxic in DNA to cause rapid aging that it does not show if we use the 768 years to Peleg's death according to Egyptina Flood year 3090 BC. God is changing this now, but for not listening to this in Feb 1985 his price is as it was for those over age 20 in Sinai, sorry you will die after Armageddon and watch your children survive to be the millions now living who will never die (quote 1935). If for not heeding the science fact from Jehovah's mouth in 1985 no one over 20 will grow young after Armageddon, it means that in 2010 after Armageddon those who were 20 and under in 1985 will now be 45 and under they will not age. Anyone now 45 to 65 will age slower, perhaps live 460 years if they do not regiment a purge of actual body mass to rid the C14 and replace new body mass. So you say the dates mean nothing because although you are here in an archeological forum it is for what.... are you faith and miracles only, so why read this stuff, or are you the archeology of science only, so then why express what makes prophet and what doesnt. Your side is vague.

Further, the chronology back to the Flood is the BEST EXAMPLE of disputing evolution because it lays out common history of schools along with the Bible. The Bible in modern timelines concerns all cities built after the Flood. It concerns Noah, and Babel, and Ur, and Salem. Jericho is not wehn it fell, it is when was it built? Cave dwellers who refused to build houses after the Flood, etc. All this marks dates, and the dates mark what is happening in past and near future.

ELIJAH
this name doesnt just say i am the final condemnor,
the name means God is Jehovah, Jehovah is God
Eli(him) and Jah(ovah) is the One who proves himself.
I have many names, Becuase i am John the Baptizer
that makes me Mordecai who forces Esther back to
Jesus Xerxes saying if you dont regard your position as
one by Jehovah to save your people then Jehovah will
find another to save us all.
Can you imagine John talking that way to Jesus,
or me telling the WatchTower Governing Body that,
why Esther has the power to chop off her cousins head.
But it wasnt Jesus, nor Esther who did the chopping
for insubordination. In fact it was Judas who said Lord
rebuke this man for he says you are Christ and yet he does not follow you, as he should. And he also said if Jesus were
 Christ he should sell the perfume, not waste it on his feet.
Well if my word is not Jehovah so that it is perfume rejected
by Esther, then behold let my blood be poured out now
to get their attention. I wash Esther's feet with my blood.
The feet of the christ body must get to heaven, and if
it be my blood that isthe perfume to wash those feet,
i accept this fate, but yes i say fate because i am not the willing atonement, i am  the first goat, Esther is the 2nd goat.
As was John then Jesus.

Since you wish to know why all the prophesy. Here is a link to show I dont post EVERything here in the archeological forum.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.jehovahs-witn/browse_thread/thread/58557829bfa8e4ce?hl=en

[notalent]

I hope you'll address the Magi calculations at some point, and their being content to show up two years late, as it would seem.  I suppose they were at some technological disadvantage compared to today.

The original Elijah said I am no better than our corrupt forefathers. By the way, the name Ba' al means The Lord and I say nothing in the name of the Lord because as LORD (master) i find you fail, i fail, and all others fail. So I call him Jehovah for it means what proves to be what it is he is.

Jehovah isn't right in the least, though, is it?  The J is totally German.  In Hebrew, it's a Y.  YHWH is actually unpronouncable in Hebrew.  The vowel points are from Adonai.  Nobody knows what the original vowel points were.  Is it more right to pronounce what we don't know, and definitely incorrect at that?

Also, Baal is NEVER translated Lord or LORD in the AV, or any other translation I'm aware of.  It means "lord" (not "the lord"), but translations of YHWH and Adonai as LORD and Lord, respectively could never be confused with Baal, since Baal is always translated Baal, never lord.  So LORD would seem just as good or better than a meaningless German mangling of Hebrew.  One could at least do better to mangle it in Hebrew, as Yahweh.

Also, you dont' call Jesus Jeshua or Joshua, which is his real name, and would better connect the reader with the Christ types in the Old Testament by that same name.  Isn't this a bit inconsistent on your part?

Do you call James, Jacob?  That's his real name from the original Greek transliteration of Hebrew/Aramaic.  James is an intentional misnomer by the AV translators.  Why do you not correct this?

You don't call Babylon "Babel", because those two are the exact same word in Hebrew.  Why don't you do this "correctly"?

You don't call Nahash the Amonite "serpent", because that's the same word, nachash that's used for "serpent" in the Garden narrative.

Why do you presume to preach to people who know better than you about Hebrew words?  This is a breaking of the eleventh commandment, "Thou shalt never presume".

Shall we continue to preach to each other?  I'll claim my preaching comes from chapter and verse, and yours from an astrolabe and a calculator.  How's that for inspiration?

In this way I accept all that is him, even if it is him and i dont see it, or even if its not him and i am alluding myself to think it is him, i let the outcome strike me and pahse me so that i do know him. Versus those who think what is will be means he amkes it all happen, it is all fated and we need not care but accept it is all he wants. Nah, God doesnt decide a dog chewing on your baby is bringing him glory. Because of that we let serial killers who rape and chop go free so that it teaches us God's lessons.  Bcrap. I am offended for Him.

Well, if Jesus is as good as Joshua, then LORD is not inferior to the deliberate mangling of YHWH.  Though I don't expect God is keeping score on this issue.

But time does matter. Because it is the curve of the 340 years from 2370 BC Flood to Peleg's death that shows carbon-14 is toxic in DNA to cause rapid aging that it does not show if we use the 768 years to Peleg's death according to Egyptina Flood year 3090 BC. God is changing this now, but for not listening to this in Feb 1985 his price is as it was for those over age 20 in Sinai, sorry you will die after Armageddon and watch your children survive to be the millions now living who will never die (quote 1935). If for not heeding the science fact from Jehovah's mouth in 1985 no one over 20 will grow young after Armageddon, it means that in 2010 after Armageddon those who were 20 and under in 1985 will now be 45 and under they will not age.

I was not aware that Jehovah said anything in 1985.  I'd like to understand this better if you wouldn't mind explaining.

Anyone now 45 to 65 will age slower, perhaps live 460 years if they do not regiment a purge of actual body mass to rid the C14 and replace new body mass. So you say the dates mean nothing because although you are here in an archeological forum it is for what.... are you faith and miracles only, so why read this stuff, or are you the archeology of science only, so then why express what makes prophet and what doesnt. Your side is vague.

I'm enjoy ancient history.  That's why I'm in this forum.  What most interests me is that God spoke to a culture that is totally alien to us in the modern day.  It might as well have been from another planet.  Language, customs, assumptions, priorities -- almost all modus operandi were very very different than our post modern ways.

Yet, I don't expect to find much here that will convince others of the Bible in archaeology.  (I don't need convincing.) Though the Tal al Hammam data comes very close, and is very exciting in that regard.  It's a very good fit, it seems.  But Semitic cultures in the region of Canaan didn't lend themselves to recording very much in stone, clay or ostraca, which probably suits God's purpose very well.  We have Moses and the prophets.  Let us hear them.  It is sufficient.  Or is it, "Let them calculate dates, for this is the first commandment"? 

Further, the chronology back to the Flood is the BEST EXAMPLE of disputing evolution because it lays out common history of schools along with the Bible.

But it is not needed, is it?  Blessed are they who having not seen, yet believe.  You seem to prefer the view of Thomas, the doubter.

The Bible in modern timelines concerns all cities built after the Flood. It concerns Noah, and Babel, and Ur, and Salem. Jericho is not wehn it fell, it is when was it built? Cave dwellers who refused to build houses after the Flood, etc. All this marks dates, and the dates mark what is happening in past and near future.

ELIJAH
this name doesnt just say i am the final condemnor,
the name means God is Jehovah, Jehovah is God
Eli(him) and Jah(ovah) is the One who proves himself.
I have many names, Becuase i am John the Baptizer
that makes me Mordecai who forces Esther back to
Jesus Xerxes saying if you dont regard your position as
one by Jehovah to save your people then Jehovah will
find another to save us all.

How did you come to the understanding of this role, which you understand is assigned to you, uniquely?

Also, being a John the Baptist, I don't suppose the analogy goes so far as to make you unworthy to unlatch anyone's sandal, being a forerunner of someone greater.  But I see you're Mordecai as well, which sort of dissolves things into more vague picture of your actual role, being some combination of roles. 

Can you imagine John talking that
way to Jesus,
or me telling the WatchTower Governing Body that,
why Esther has the power to chop off her cousins head.
But it wasnt Jesus, nor Esther who did the chopping
for insubordination. In fact it was Judas who said Lord
rebuke this man for he says you are Christ and yet he does not follow you, as he should. And he also said if Jesus were
 Christ he should sell the perfume, not waste it on his feet.
Well if my word is not Jehovah so that it is perfume rejected
by Esther, then behold let my blood be poured out now
to get their attention. I wash Esther's feet with my blood.
The feet of the christ body must get to heaven, and if
it be my blood that isthe perfume to wash those feet,
i accept this fate, but yes i say fate because i am not the willing atonement, i am  the first goat, Esther is the 2nd goat.
As was John then Jesus.

Is this more-or-less JW doctrine, or is this your enhancement of it?  Thanks for any answers.

[Elijah]

== CALCULATING THE END BY MATH (magi) ==

[notalent]

Yes, it seems one must get his replies in during a 60 minute window.  There's a trick to saving your work if you get caught in this trap.  Rather than log back in immediately, you can click "back" to edit window, copy the contents, then go forward and log in.  Then paste your work into a new edit window.  Took me a couple of losses to figure that out.  I feel your pain.

[Elijah]

== DOES THE NAME JEHOVAH MATTER ==

Jehovah isn't right in the least, though, is it?  The J is totally German.  In Hebrew, it's a Y.  YHWH is actually unpronouncable in Hebrew.  The vowel points are from Adonai.  Nobody knows what the original vowel points were.  Is it more right to pronounce what we don't know, and definitely incorrect at that?

How to pronounce the name Jehovah or Jova or Yova doesnt matter to me. It is what the name means and not how it's said. God is force or power. Lord is owner or master. Jehovah means proof of what will be is the proof of what is. The name debates whether fate is made or fate is inescapable. Fate is inescapable only in the way that everything will have results, good works bring good results, bad works bring bad results. Some feel bad works bring lessons learned. Thus Jehovah is more than Lord to me. While you next argue whether Ba'al means lord or not, you admit Anodai means lord even though the Greeks call the planet Mars as Adonis beause he is Lord. Proof that the word Lord for Jehovah is also used for others as Lord Mars or Lord Baal. So lord or the lord is not sufficient for me or my heart. El and al are debated as god or as Lord. Even all the way back to the first king from heaven before the Flood who is Alulim, and Ala-Gar the one listed in Ghost Busters.

Also, Baal is NEVER translated Lord or LORD in the AV, or any other translation I'm aware of.  It means "lord" (not "the lord"), but translations of YHWH and Adonai as LORD and Lord, respectively could never be confused with Baal, since Baal is always translated Baal, never lord.  So LORD would seem just as good or better than a meaningless German mangling of Hebrew.  One could at least do better to mangle it in Hebrew, as Yahweh. Also, you dont' call Jesus Jeshua or Joshua, which is his real name, and would better connect the reader with the Christ types in the Old Testament by that same name.  Isn't this a bit inconsistent on your part? Do you call James, Jacob?  That's his real name from the original Greek transliteration of Hebrew/Aramaic.  James is an intentional misnomer by the AV translators.  Why do you not correct this?

Because the meaning is the most important issue not the language. Examples whether it is Michael or Mikael or Michelle it all means What Person Is Like God? So too while they argue whether it is the god Re or Reeee or Ra (rah), they ignore British spelling Re is (ray) as in sunray born after the Flood. Just as they say Seepango (Cipango) but it is pronounced as Cheepango (how else could it evolve to Chapango and Japango). Problem is espanics prounounce che as kay. But gee wiz even then they dont get that right for Cheops which is pronounced as Kay-off because the Pharaohs name is two letters K-F. Just as his son is three letters KFR. Which brings us back to Y and H and W and H proving the original alphabet, each leter was a word. The word H is ha in Hebrew or Ho in Greek and it means to be, ho dog (the dog) to be the dog as he is. Thus it is easy to see how I am what I am repeats as does the H does twice.
 

You don't call Babylon "Babel", because those two are the exact same word in Hebrew.  Why don't you do this "correctly"?

Because i distiguish Babel as 2240-2009 BC but Babylon as 1894-1594 BC. The importance of this is due to the great pyramid failing after three precessions of 92 years doing so 2170-1894 BC so that the failing tower of Babel (2240 BC) in its first year is equated with the failing great pyramid in Babylon's 1st year 1894 BC.

You don't call Nahash the Amonite "serpent", because that's the same word, nachash that's used for "serpent" in the Garden narrative. Why do you presume to preach to people who know better than you about Hebrew words?  This is a breaking of the eleventh commandment, "Thou shalt never presume". Shall we continue to preach to each other?  I'll claim my preaching comes from chapter and verse, and yours from an astrolabe and a calculator.  How's that for inspiration?

Astronomy truth and a truthful calculator are more of God than scripture not understood.