Ron Wyatt

[archaeologist]

But if all you're going to do is spout off incoherently about your idiotic religious views - please just butt out

you have been reported.

if you do not like what i say then  don't respond

[eccles]

I just joined this Forum and I don't know how far I can go. I will say I am Atheist, a former Roman Catholic and as such I was discouraged by my Catholic School from reading the Old Testament except Genesis and Exodus. I just read from Genesis to !I Kings.

As far as the Exodus of the Hebrews is concerned. I do not believe a word of it. It is worth noting that there is no official record of such an event by ancient Egyptians and archaeologists have been digging in the Sinai since 1920 and found nothing. Bibical scholars get the Hebrews mixed up with the Hyksos who invaded Egypt and ruled the country for about 100 years in the third Intermediate Period.

I know that the late Ron Wayett was not a trained professional archaeologist and his searches for Noah's Ark, evidence for the Exodus and the Ark of the Covenant were funded by \the members of his fundamentaist church.

I have never accepted anything on his Web Site as any more that trying to prove a myth. He has been discredited by all responsible people interested in Biblical History.

[notalent]

As far as the Exodus of the Hebrews is concerned. I do not believe a word of it. It is worth noting that there is no official record of such an event by ancient Egyptians and archaeologists have been digging in the Sinai since 1920 and found nothing.

It's more worth noting that it wouldn't be surprising if such enormously embarrassing events were ignored by Egypt's hagiographers.

Bibical scholars get the Hebrews mixed up with the Hyksos who invaded Egypt and ruled the country for about 100 years in the third Intermediate Period.

New Chronology (NC) suggests the Hyksos were Amalek of Exodus, who battled Israel as they left Egypt while they entered and took advantage of a weakened Egyptian state.

[Elijah]

The only potential i consider possible of Ron Wyatt is his Red Sea parting of east Aqaba instead of west Suez.
I personally think that if he has truth there, that he was offended at the rejection of it, with an atitude of I will show you, God is with me, and I will discover EVERYTHING.

Well God does help me discover everything I aim for, but it is in a theory sense that he does so as I read what others find and say and publish. Nothing of anyone is free from being questioned, nor should not be questioned. The Bible promises that the truth will go thru the fire along with those who bear it. This doesnt mean people of truth survive some fire while everyone else is destroyed, but rather refers to purging of what is false by a fire of questioning persecution. It should be expected even if so horridly morally wrong in some extents.

The many chronologies indicate that Hyksos entered Egypt first at Peleg's death which varies in year BC depending on the chronology. But these years are not geneological as everyone thinks, they are astral. After Peleg's death, Abram came in the 1st year of 12th dynasty. He was regarded as Hyksos intrusion also but 12th dynasty was Shemetic (Hyksos). Though scholars say Hyksos are primary Hitite from Turkey to Ararat, they include Shemetic Chaldean (Ur) who left Peleg's death gooing to Ararat. Shemetic Hyksos left Ur when 3rd dynasty was destroyed by Hitite in 1900 BC but they went to found India, and this is also true then again when their relatives left Babylon in 1625 BC for India. These dates are confused with Hyksos leaving Egypt when slavery started in 1600 BC just before Aaron & Moses was born. Moses was born marking the fall of Babylon in 1594 BC.
The flight of Moses in 1553 BC at 40 is marked in Egypt as the exodus of Hyksos which actually occurred 40 years later when Moses at 80 came back. So many scholars attempt to prove that 215 years of Israel cannot reach 600,000 men between age 20 to 60 but they fail to see that these Hyksos left with Moses by agreeing to be citizens of the 12 tribes of Israel they followed. If we use the scripture which says the day will come where 10 men are saved on the skirt of a Jew, this could imply there were 10 Hyksos for every Israelite going thru the Red Sea. Moses was accepted by Israel when he came back to release Israel, then rejected during the plagues being told he was causing greater slavery, then accepted to flee Israel lest you stay behind and be killed by Pharaoh, then feared for the parted Red Sea, then defied saying Jehovah is with all of us not just you. So very human just like today. Just like Ron Wyatt.

I hope we can do well here if you wish to discuss topics.


This post has been modified by Forum administration

[eccles]

"I get the impression all the time that Australia is very much anti Bible and anti church and anti JW."

Elijah, how much do you know about Australia? Have you been here? I have been to the States. I drove from Detroit to NYC, to the Florida Keys, across the Confederate States to LV, LA, SF about 8,000 miles in total. Then I recouperated in Waikiki Beach.

I found Americans very ignorant about Australia. Some did not even know where it is. Some thought kangaroos sell neswpapers in the streets.

Australians are not anit-bible, not anit-church. We do not like JW's knocking on our doors trying to preach at us. About 72% of Australians claim to believe in god but only about 12% attend Church. Australia has true Freedom of Religion.

"The striving for evolution and gay marriage etc in Australia seems to be the strongest in the world."

All I will say about Gay Marriages is that although I think they are silly I thnk it is their business. Gay Marriages are not legal in Australia.

What do you mean "Striving for Evolution"? Do you think we are stupid enough to beileve that "Creation" crap? What percentage of American School children are taught science properly in primary schools? I hear it is not enough.

"Creation" is not allowed to be taught in public schools here and religious schools accept evolution over "Creation". Even Roman Catholics believe in Evolution and consider Genesis a fable. Ken Ham, the joint founder of the "Creation Museum" was a failed Science reacher and I suppose was hounded out of Australia for his crazy beliefs about "Creation". A museum like that would not get off the ground here. We have plenty of Dinosaur skeletons in our state museums.
The vast majority of Australia’s dinosaur bones come from north-central Queensland, found in Early Cretaceous rocks formed about 140 million years ago.

So just don't expect me to swallow your "theories". I find them most objectional.

[eccles]

And by the way, Australia in not in Europe east of Switzerland. That is AUSTRIA. Australia is in the Southern Hemisphere between the Indian and Pacific Oceans.

[eccles]

I ask if he has any connections with :
"Answers in Genesis"
http://www.answersingenesis.org/ and it's "Creation Museum"

"Wyatt Archaeological Research"
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/
The late Ron Wyatt was not an Archaeologist,

This post has been modified by Forum administration

[Irishman]

I just joined this Forum and I don't know how far I can go. I will say I am Atheist, a former Roman Catholic and as such I was discouraged by my Catholic School from reading the Old Testament except Genesis and Exodus. I just read from Genesis to !I Kings.

As far as the Exodus of the Hebrews is concerned. I do not believe a word of it. It is worth noting that there is no official record of such an event by ancient Egyptians and archaeologists have been digging in the Sinai since 1920 and found nothing. Bibical scholars get the Hebrews mixed up with the Hyksos who invaded Egypt and ruled the country for about 100 years in the third Intermediate Period.

I know that the late Ron Wayett was not a trained professional archaeologist and his searches for Noah's Ark, evidence for the Exodus and the Ark of the Covenant were funded by \the members of his fundamentaist church.

I have never accepted anything on his Web Site as any more that trying to prove a myth. He has been discredited by all responsible people interested in Biblical History.

Do you feel, as an atheist, that it is important to only go as far as the evidence can take you? I find that a common paradigm among atheists.

If so, and if you're using the what's in the ground paradigm as a measuring stick against what happened what didn't happen, then we have no evidence of other things.

For example, we have no evidence in the dirt of Egyptian armies and politicos traversing the Sinai during the Amarna period.

By the same logic as you apply to the Exodus, we must conclude that the Egyptians didn't taverse the Sinai into Canaan.

[eccles]

On the contrary, Irishman. There is plenty of evidence:

"Thutmose III found himself faced with a coalition of the princes of Kadesh and Megiddo, who had mobilised a large army. Also the Mesopotamians and their kinsmen living in Syria refused to pay tribute and declared themselves free of Egypt. Not daunted, Thutmose immediately set out with his army and crossing the Sinai desert he marched to the city of Gaza, which had remained loyal to Egypt. The events of the campaign are well documented because Thutmose's private secretary, Tjaneni, kept a record which was later copied and engraved onto the walls of the temple of Karnak."

http://www.discoveringegypt.com/k-q3.htm

[eccles]

Just so anyone /everyone knows what I say when I report to a moderator.

Submitted:
I respect his RIGHT to opinion, but his posts lack member respect. Phrases (shoot your mouth off) (BS) (crap)(a lying quack) (his whole mob)(lying quacks). He has a right to say this is a lie and fraud, but where does such phrases have a place here from my previous experiences in here. If I called this man, or any other member scum in a post, i would be on suspension again, as before.

[Remove this post once the matter is rectified, and teach this man the ability how to modify his own posts or how to remove his own posts.]

Administrators.
If you remove me, remove Elija for all his crap and lies.
There are statements in the "Biblical Archaeological Review" Sept/Oct 1994 about the lack of any archaeological evidence for the Exodus .

Excommunicate me and I shall be the first martyr of the First Church of Atheism.

[Elijah]

See the point soars over his head. This isnt about removal for different opinion, but for disrespectful language. I assure you that as free mouthed as Australians like to use the word crap, the majority of foreignors out there in my travels or visiting the states also think that to be burned is to F*** and they have it in their mind that they use this word as common English. If you search this site you will see the words of this man bring this site down to the newsgroup levels where they load up the data banks with calling each other F* idiots, and F* morons, and crap, and BS, and get a life etc. This site has not been that yet, but this is the first man who will bring it there. And I am merely predicting and suggesting that BAS respectfully avoid that to their blessing. He needs to be told to change his words against all members as he presents the fact he disagrees. Read his posts, and you will see every 4 of 5 will speak that way.

[Remove this post when the matter is rectified.]

[notalent]

Excommunicate me and I shall be the first martyr of the First Church of Atheism.

It's more likely you'd be a martyr of the Church of artless, polemical auto-intoxication.

[Elijah]

Martyrdom is in vain when it is merely pride of what you are or what you do or what you beleive. A true martyr weighs the cost of what will succeed if dying. When the matyr has caused a change in our world future, then his blood had value. Otherwise he is just another person who weighed his beleifs as worthy of dying rather than conform or dney his faiths (his beleifs) etc. Not every dead soldier gets a medal of honor just because he died, or do they?

It is one thing to claim we have something because someone died, and another to know and see the proof that we do. True martyrdom is frequently a last minute decision of values making the choice and decerning the death as better for others, martyrdom doesnt die for oneself, it dies for others. Hmmmm how did Ron Wyatt die? (rhetorical, i dont care)

[Irishman]

On the contrary, Irishman. There is plenty of evidence:

"Thutmose III found himself faced with a coalition of the princes of Kadesh and Megiddo, who had mobilised a large army. Also the Mesopotamians and their kinsmen living in Syria refused to pay tribute and declared themselves free of Egypt. Not daunted, Thutmose immediately set out with his army and crossing the Sinai desert he marched to the city of Gaza, which had remained loyal to Egypt. The events of the campaign are well documented because Thutmose's private secretary, Tjaneni, kept a record which was later copied and engraved onto the walls of the temple of Karnak."

http://www.discoveringegypt.com/k-q3.htm

I'm not talking about written stories or accounts. That's no more convincing than the biblical account (less so, actually, given the Egyptian predilection for rewriting history from dynasty to dynasty).

I'm talking about remains of campsites, etc. of travelling soldiers through Sinai in the 18th dynasty.

[Elijah]

Very excellent reply, you are asking for tangible evidence of Egypt since he knocks tangible evidence of Israel. Yet this is what the world does, they will accept the WRITTEN record of those Egyptians as not lie but truth, and yet call that record of the Jews as all lies. This is exactly what the Bible is about, the people who say your people lie and mine do not, my people have truth and yours does not.