The Phoenicians

[turanclancath]

DMLLS     = Dear Most Learned Lady Sekhmet

Wow what a terrific learned long answer   to a simple short question( i,m in a litterary and good  mood therefore this wonderfull style of mine like learned long ).
Thank you really in spending so much research and time for the answer


I have only some little remarks concerning your leaned exposee .

 1.My question ( see the copy past in your mail ) was

Are the Abram Philistines the same people as lets call them the Seapeople
Philistines  ?


The problem was not if they were phunicians . They were of course not!!!
neither Michael postulated that ,see his mail reply 10 on nov 10
he writes that Phoenicians and Philistines are not !!! the same.

It was about how a name can stick in a regio and its people even if the population changes .

Like Scots in Scotland ,Frisians in Roman and later times  etcetc.

No ! , my question was  are the Abram Phil with there   Gezer king Abimelech ( a good semitic name lol lol ,aba father  melek/ melech  king )

the same as the  Seapeople Phil.
And about that I have doubts .

Your essay about the origins of the Seapeople Philistines in the 3d millenium Greek world is exellent,
You see them as  the mysterious Pelasgians .

There are many theorys about this pre greek population, nothing generally accepted  they remain mysterious.

But  yours is an exellent hypothesis and I can accept it !!!!!

That they are also  the Abram Philistines  that gives me problems.

See my remark how  a name can stick for millenia to a regio with different populations in the long  long time.

Not only  that Abimelech is a Semitic name  his commander  Piykol   is called
Sar.

Sar can be also Semitic  denoting high , prince etc

See Sarai/Sarah    .
There are many Semitic words ( Babylon Assyria etc ) with sar .

So perhaps the Abram Philistines were  not at all related to the  Sea people   Philistines  but got there name from the Regio.

Concerning your Pelasgians etc 
2 links with exellent litteratue about the Philistines etc.

Woudhuizen is an Dr.Dissertation page 95-107 is about the Philistines.
its exellent  .
the other link Salimbetti
is also  very good about seapeolples philistines and pelasgians.

but helas nobody in all my litterature gaves answer to the question  were the Abram Philistines the same as the so called Se philistines.

Hope that I give you not to much work if I kindly ask you do  you  know some information about that:)

And I really enjoy our discussion  polite learned friendly( and warm as Moses    called  it in 1 of his postings)
So every Forum  should be !!!!!

Here come the 2 links  and have a nice weekend

Turanclancath:)









http://publishing.eur.nl/ir/repub/asset/7686/Woudhuizen%20bw.pdf



The Greek Age of Bronze - Sea Peoples

[Sekhmet]

but helas nobody in all my litterature gaves answer to the question  were the Abram Philistines the same as the so called Se philistines.

Hope that I give you not to much work if I kindly ask you do  you  know some information about that:)

And I really enjoy our discussion  polite learned friendly( and warm as Moses    called  it in 1 of his postings)
So every Forum  should be !!!!!

Here come the 2 links  and have a nice weekend

Turanclancath:)



http://publishing.eur.nl/ir/repub/asset/7686/Woudhuizen%20bw.pdf

A great Sekhmet Roar for you dear friend 

The short answer is: of course not human beings do not live for millenniums!
However, cultural traits do tend to change slowly over the millenniums until our parents generation.

Again thank you, I can run on especially in good company on topics I am well studied in.  I am sorry

[Michael]

The fact that the Phonecians and Philistines occupied the same identical squar footage is immaterial. They both occupied the coastal areas, known as Palestine, give or ake a few square inches.

They both worshipped Dagon.

Their relationship to the Canaanites was similar to each other in that they both were dominate culures.

The Phoenicians are not out of Africa, but are of the same stock as the Canaanites with the same language and customs.


The Phoenicians of the Iron Age (first millennium B.C.) descended from the original Canaanites who dwelt in the region during the earlier Bronze Age (3000-1200 H.C.), despite classical tradition to the contrary.

There is archaeological evidence for a continuous cultural tradition from the Bronze to the Iron Age (1200 -333 s.c.) at the cities of Tyre Zaraphath

The Phoenicians, whose lands corresponds to present-day Lebanon and coastal parts of Israel and Syria, probably arrived in the region in about 3000 B.C. They established commercial and religious connections were established with Egypt after about 2613 BC and continued until the end of the Egyptian Old Kingdom and the invasion of Phoenicia by the Amorites (c. 2200 BC).
Lebanon The Cedar's Land - Phoenicia Missionaries of Civilization

[turanclancath]

My Dear and Learned Friends



Prussia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think i found a solution hypothesis for the Philistine dilemma.

Its like Prussia  see the Wiki link above.
The name of the Regio and the name of the Population stayed the same  ,But the ethnic composition of the inhabitants changed .

Prussia in eastern Europe was a heathen balic/slavonic populated Regio.

Dutch and German knights held crusades against them  so called Preussen  voyages .
After it was in 13 and 14 century ( you have western and eastern prussia )
Germanised ( Teutonised ) with much decimation and extermination  of the
local prussians  it became the kernel of what became;later Brandenburg?Preussen  and the militant  ofFrederik the Great in the 18 century.

Prussia and Prussians became the symbol of  typical German militarism servitude to the state and its almighty buraucracy.( as in their 19 century  infamous National Anthem  the line Deutschland Deutschland ueber alles in die Welt  nowdays the melody is the same but the text is changed )

Symbol of what did lead to he first world war.and the road to Nazism.


So i think the same changes  with the name Philistines  and the Regio Philistinia.

As in Frisia as  I mentioned in an earlyer posting

I.There were the Abram Philistines living in the Pentapolis Regio.

II.in the 13 century there arrived   as conquerers and or/placed by the Egyptians a total new Aegean population with strong links to Cyprus.
The Egyptians used these Philistines already with other sea peoples as mercenarys.

And then the Egyptians  in the time of Ramses 3 ( Medinet Habu inscriptions and Images )  gave them the name Peleset  according to the Regio were they settled although they were a new population .

And the Hebrews also kept the old name Philistines for Regio and People.
Although it was a new people !

In this way both Bible  mentions ( Abram and Seapeople Philistines are true )
and I have not to argue that it was a scribal error or later interpolation etc.


Turanclancath

[Sekhmet]

Oh! Well done Sir Turanclancath   I will stick to my prior answer it is long enough LOL!

A great day to you and yours sir, as to all.

[Sekhmet]

Regarding the Phoenicians

Ancient Phoenicians may be forgotten but not gone
   

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.



Another link of interest

The Genographic Project - Human Migration, Population Genetics,  Maps, DNA - National Geographic

[turanclancath]

The Greek Age of Bronze - Ships

If you look at the famous Thera ( Santorini ) naval ( marine frescoes )in this link

and you enlarge them : in my opinion you will see that many  rowers and also important persons

wear   the typical Philistine seapeople feather headgear .

Would confirm the idy of Philistine Aegean provenance ,

Turanclancath

[turanclancath]

http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/indexLists.htm

an exellent link for ancient Israel,Canaan, Phunicia etc etc etc

Turanclancath

[Elijah]

I find words interesting and beleive many are connected no matter how many scholars wish it not connected to go back to one family off an ark.
You are talking about Philistines and Palistinians which I know also relates to words like Phallus and the argument of whether its sexual or sundials. God forbid you have two pendallums on your clock, they could be mistaken for other things while swinging.

Examples like when I was in Maui and the island Molok-i-ni is the kings island. And the most Hawaiians a million live not in Honolulu but in Moloka-i wher ethe king ruled them. Interesting that Molok is there.
Anyways, I think many times other people who control your family change your words and I am thinking the british changed the name of Peking to Bejing because think about it.

If you are American or British and you spell it as Peging it could easily evolve into English people arguing whether they are saying Paging or Baging as in Pay-jing or bay-jing with a hard P or a hard B.
When you argue B or P you may say the Ba is hard and the Pa is soft; but when you think of it . . . the P also gets argued too as a hard P or a soft Ph which exists many places without that H and is why we then have an open face P which is the F.

Snd of course the Bejing evolves out of it with the hard B. But that division also argues the second half too as a soft G that sounds like Je (Jay), because a hard G can sound like a K so that Pe-ging can be Pay-King (Peking) and the same word Be-Ging can be Bay-Jing (Bejing). SO NO WORD HAS CHANGED AT ALL, ITS ALL ABOUT PETTY TRIVIA. And is why the British spelling ot the sun Re is pronounced by British as Ray or sun Ray and every one is so bling to see it refers to a type of sun required for measuring and thus is science and not more idol worship or religion.
People who do not want to do their school work whether they are teachers or students are the people who turn real science into a fantasy that centuries later others will call religion and entertainment mythologies and parties. This world keeps losing value of things after every peak it makes.

[turanclancath]

Another very handy series of Syllabi about the Middle  East.

http://cnx.org/content/similarity?objectId=m17976

Turanclancath