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Sekhmet
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« on: Sep 29, 2008, 03:11 PM »



I would like to provide a quote of page 23, of the book The Phoenicians (1999) (First publication in the United States) original publication date 1988 Venice.)  (Edited by Sabatino Moscati).  Rizzoli International Publications, Inc.

Page 23 is actually from the chapter titled The Origins in the East written by Sandro Pilippo Bondi.  Emphasis is mine.


“The essentially uniform body of political, linguistic, religious, and artistic
experiences  that marks the Phoenician nation as an independent
entity emerges clearly in the area roughly corresponding to present-day
Lebanon only only around 1200 B.C.E.   This means that
the period which can properly be called Phoenician,
running from the end of 2nd through most of the 1st millennium
B.C.E., was preceded by a long historical, and before that,
 prehistoric stage
whose cultural manifestations cannot be assessed
merely in terms of “Phoenician” and “non-Phoenician.” 

They belong, in fact, to a broader cultural unity embracing the whole
 area of Syria and Palestine.  The analysis of the historical and cultural
events of this earlier period, helps point up the continuity and the importance
of the innovatory aspects that distinguished the Phoenician civilization from
anything that preceded it.  It is from this point of viewpoint that it is
presented here.

The oldest archaeological evidence yielded by the Phoenician area
comes from the city of Byblos.
  Here as early as the 5th millennium B.C.E.
on the heights near the sea there existed an important Neolithic settlement
described as the largest of its time in the Mediterranean area.  The
earliest inhabitants of Byblos engaged not only in farming and sheep
raising, but in fishing as well, so that vital relation to the sea which
was later to be peculiar to the whole history of the city already existed.

At the same time,, the earliest evidence appears of the flourishing production
of woven goods and yarns which was also to be typical of Byblos and all
 of Phoenicia well into the historical era.  One of the most significant finds
of this period is the characteristic pottery, decorated by incising with
the back of a shell, or ornamented with rows of stippled triangles or with
“herringbone” patterns.  Also peculiar to the area of Byblos was the
carving of pebbles into highly expressive, schematized figures of deities.”

This shows us that while the Phoenicians greatest heyday began around 1200 BCE, there is evidence.  They existed for millenniums before that heyday began.  There is no reason why Abraham had to wait into the Middle Bronze Age or Iron Age to exist.  The Hebrews a mainly pastoral people would have left even fewer clues to their existence. 

This is further backed by the increasing knowledge of Syrian-Mesopotamia-Palestine archaeology.  That Semitic speaking people were existing in Mesopotamia by the end of the 4th millennium.  Crawford, Harriet.  (1991).  Sumer and the Sumerians Cambridge University Press.  Pages 20-21.

Quoting “At this point it is not difficult to understand how, until about 25 years ago, the very existence of Phoenician studies constituted a subject for debate.”  Sabatino Moscati page 11,  The Phoenicians

The above is not Biblical Archaeology today; it continues the debate of a chronology, which dates to the early years of Christianity.  Instead of looking at new information that archaeology has discovered in the last 25-30 years in Egypt, Syria, and Mesopotamia.

As I have pointed out several times I am a granny, and in Biblical Chronology granny has done it.  ;D

An original piece by Pjbl2223@aol.com copyrighted 2000-2008 from The Archaeological Chronology of the Bible Lands.  All rights reserved.
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 01, 2008, 02:20 AM »

Hi Sekhmet

Some scholars are claiming that the end of the Trojan war and the date Odysseus returned home was April 16, 1178 BCE.  The records kept regarding the sky (Sun, stars, earth movements, etc.) enabled scholars to ascertain that date.  Now I understand that the Trojan text gave information that included the Phoenicians (Punics) in that war.  Homer wrote about 700-800 BCE so he would be writing about a date almost 500 years earlier.

The Phoenicians were great traders and warriors.  From Tyre in Lebanon, they built Carthage in North Africa (Tunisia) and had a settlement in Sicily and who knows where else.  I believe Hanibal was a Phoenician.  They fought in many wars, including the Punic wars against Rome.  I think Punic refers to their language.

I picked up this information a little here and there.  I keep saying I'm going to read the Punic Wars books but haven't yet.  Phoenicians are famous for discovering the color purple.  I wish there were some throwbacks left in Lebanon so they could kick Hezballah's butts to Mars, where it's snowing!
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 01, 2008, 11:51 AM »

Hi Sekhmet

Some scholars are claiming that the end of the Trojan war and the date Odysseus returned home was April 16, 1178 BCE.  The records kept regarding the sky (Sun, stars, earth movements, etc.) enabled scholars to ascertain that date.  Now I understand that the Trojan text gave information that included the Phoenicians (Punics) in that war.  Homer wrote about 700-800 BCE so he would be writing about a date almost 500 years earlier.

The Phoenicians were great traders and warriors.  From Tyre in Lebanon, they built Carthage in North Africa (Tunisia) and had a settlement in Sicily and who knows where else.  I believe Hanibal was a Phoenician.  They fought in many wars, including the Punic wars against Rome.  I think Punic refers to their language.

I picked up this information a little here and there.  I keep saying I'm going to read the Punic Wars books but haven't yet.  Phoenicians are famous for discovering the color purple.  I wish there were some throwbacks left in Lebanon so they could kick Hezballah's butts to Mars, where it's snowing!

Hi Kattey, those scholars you are referring to dear seeker, are mostly using smoke and mirrors IMHO the date does not change much from the Ancient Greek and Roman considered date.  Late spring and summer being the time of war in the ancient world April fits within the age.

It is generally accepted that Homer was only writing down the oral tradition of the Trojan War.  So the difference is made up by oral folklore.  Oral folklore is as Native Americans proved a reliable way of keeping stories intact for ages.  (A study of Native American folklore will also show the less than perfect accepted belief that the Bible was a manufactored tale to bind different peoples together during the rule of Solomon LOL ex. The Iroquois Federation.)  Forgive me Kattey for driffing off topic.

If you read the Punic Wars you will be reading the victors assessment.  If it is reading about the Phoenicians you would do best to read the book I quoted from.  It is just filled with facts of this ancient people down through and past Hannibal.  Who as you say was a Carthagean, however he did grow up in Spain or New Carthage.

The true and rich Tyrian Purple you talk about was so purple.  Kattey few people know that it was almost black in color with only sunlight showing the rich hue of purple it really was. 

As always Kattey it is so nice to talk with you.
« Last Edit: Oct 01, 2008, 12:08 PM by Sekhmet » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: Oct 07, 2008, 11:23 PM »

Phoenician Encyclopedia: A Bequest Unearthed, Phoenicia and the Phoenicians, Punic, Canaanites -- Encyclopedia Phoeniciana
This is a very good ( but subjective but who is objective ??? ) link a real treasure grove for Phunician history.


And this one is also exelent click on Carthago

Livius. Articles on Ancient History



Indeed  lady Sekhmet Sabbatino Moscati is a profound  and respected scholar.Highly recomandable.

Your Erudite mails( nearly as Erudite as mines  lol lol  i,m kidding ) show how important it is to know the historical context  in  discussing biblical archeology.

Yes indeed history is written by the conquerer.
The Romans  no Saints themselfs   as The Carhaginians were also with much sins ( read  for instance the early Christian writers about Roman cruelitys ) had every reason to besmear there rival the Carthaginians.

Titus Livius  the Roman historian describing the Punic wars is writing Roman Propaganda !!! making angels of the Romans and devils of the Carthaginians.

The Phunicians and their colony Carhahgo( founded circa 800/750  ) had some very bad  horrible cruel habits  like sacrificing infants to Baal   by burning them( see the Holy Bible )
.
Everywere were a Carthaginian colony was  there is a Tofeth  a special graveyard for sacrificed children .


Hannibal and his brothers belonged to an important dynasty in Carthago  the Barkid family.
The utmost colony of  the Phunicians   in the West was Cadiz   in modern Spain !!!


The weakness of Carthago was that is was a city who had an colonial empire but not much citizens( Rome (also a city state but the vanquished became partly citizens   the local aristocrats were  given important influence  even becoming roman Equites )

So the Carthaginian army was most a mercanary army not fighting for their ! country .
Carthago was a merchant olicharchy like later in histor Venice and the Dutch republic.
These had some parallel problems  like small fatherland big colonal empire and mercenary armys.

turanclancath :)
« Last Edit: Oct 07, 2008, 11:26 PM by turanclancath » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: Oct 19, 2008, 04:45 AM »

Phoenician Encyclopedia: A Bequest Unearthed, Phoenicia and the Phoenicians, Punic, Canaanites -- Encyclopedia Phoeniciana
This is a very good ( but subjective but who is objective ??? ) link a real treasure grove for Phunician history.


And this one is also exelent click on Carthago

Livius. Articles on Ancient History

The Phunicians and their colony Carhahgo( founded circa 800/750  ) had some very bad  horrible cruel habits  like sacrificing infants to Baal   by burning them( see the Holy Bible )

Hello Turanclancath,

Oh those horrible Phoenicians!  All I can say is they had the decentency to bury their slaughtered children.  The Greeks abandoned their unwanted or deformed children in wilds for the beasts to have or if a stranger wanted them and saved them first.  Opedius, the King of Thebes?
Let us not forget the Romans and their Fields of Mar's again where unwanted or deformed babies were abandoned for the picking by humans in need of a child, slave, or the dogs.  Such nice people.

The ancient Hebrews and Egyptians had the kindest.  The Hebrews took care of their unwanted, deformed children or maybe they used Egyptian contraceptions.
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 29, 2008, 09:48 AM »

Oh those horrible Phoenicians!  All I can say is they had the decentency to bury their slaughtered children.  The Greeks abandoned their unwanted or deformed children in wilds for the beasts to have or if a stranger wanted them and saved them first.  Opedius, the King of Thebes?
Let us not forget the Romans and their Fields of Mar's again where unwanted or deformed babies were abandoned for the picking by humans in need of a child, slave, or the dogs.  Such nice people.

The ancient Hebrews and Egyptians had the kindest.  The Hebrews took care of their unwanted, deformed children or maybe they used Egyptian contraceptions.


Hi Jennie, point well taken we often forget the ways other ancient peoples dealt with deformed or unwanted children.  Thank you for bringing it up.
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 31, 2008, 10:54 AM »

Geneticists have revealed that the men who were called Phoenicians had a special marker on the male-only Y chromosome that designated them as Phoenicians.  Genetic studies by the Welcome Trust Sanger Institute in England say as many as one in seventeen men living in communities around the Mediterranean could be decended from these ancient mariners.

Originating from Phoenicia/Lebanon, the Phoenicians were early seafarers and traders (possibily involved in the battle of Troy) who, including a love for the color purple, spread their culture to North Africa and Spain and other counties around the region.  But they seemed to fade from history after being defeated by a series of wars with Rome.  Now they can be found.

Wish all men with this special marker on the Y chromosome would return to Lebanon and kick Hizbollah out of there.
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 07, 2008, 09:44 AM »

Geneticists have revealed that the men who were called Phoenicians had a special marker on the male-only Y chromosome that designated them as Phoenicians.  Genetic studies by the Welcome Trust Sanger Institute in England say as many as one in seventeen men living in communities around the Mediterranean could be decended from these ancient mariners.



Hello Kattey, perhaps your wish is answered in your first paragraph?  "Could be" is perhaps not enough incentative for those men against a foe; best so far, fought by Israel.
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Make your ear attentive to wisdon, incline your heart to understanding; for if you cry for discernment, lift your voice for understanding; if you seek her as silver and seach for her as for hiden treasures: then you will discern the fear of the Lord and discover the knowledge of God.  For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.  Proverbs 2:2-6
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 10, 2008, 03:03 PM »

The Phoenecians are Canaanites. They occupied the same territory as Palestine and the same area as the Philistines. In fact they worshipped the same god, Dagon. They were powerful in the Early Bronze Age and dominated the other Canaanites similar to the idential relationship the Philistines did in the story of Samson.

I personally believe in this tale (not the whole Bible), Philistine is a mistranslation and the correct people should be the Phonecians.
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 10, 2008, 07:09 PM »

To Michael

Well, that's interesting.  Wouldn't Lebanon have been part of Canaanite back then?  The Phoenicians distinguished themselves from the other Sea Peoples in ancient history.

Researchers have said that the Philistines were not the backward people that history says they were.  The Jews warred with them, so wrote disparagingly about them.  Their pottery was distinct and shards from this pottery have been found scattered inland.  But I haven't heard of any pottery with purple.  Wouldn't you think if Philistines and Phoenicians were the same people purple would be found on shards?   

Ancient history says the Philistines were destroyed when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem in 586 BCE.  But the Phoenicians' legends reach way way back.  But I don't know.
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 10, 2008, 07:48 PM »

To Michael

Well, that's interesting.  Wouldn't Lebanon have been part of Canaanite back then?  The Phoenicians distinguished themselves from the other Sea Peoples in ancient history.

Researchers have said that the Philistines were not the backward people that history says they were.  The Jews warred with them, so wrote disparagingly about them.  Their pottery was distinct and shards from this pottery have been found scattered inland.  But I haven't heard of any pottery with purple.  Wouldn't you think if Philistines and Phoenicians were the same people purple would be found on shards?   

Ancient history says the Philistines were destroyed when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem in 586 BCE.  But the Phoenicians' legends reach way way back.  But I don't know.

No. That is not what I claim. the Phoenicians and Philistines are NOT the same people. They just occupied the same geographical location. The Hebrew word for Philistine is the same as Palestine. It refers to a place and not a specific people. If I was to say "the people who live in Delaware," one might think I would be referring to a bunch of white people who work for DuPont. But if that phrase was written in 1400, the reference would have been made about the Delaware indians. The same phrase, but 2 distinct peoples.

The same is true for the Hebrew word. It can be both Philistine and Phonecian, although it is never translated as Phonecian in the Bible. I would say this is due to a Septuagint prejudice of the translators who understood the story from their Helenistic point of view.

Like I said, this is my idea. I am alone on this as far as I know.

From my book:

The Hebrew name for the Philistine is a cognate with the name ‘Palestine.  This would suggest the meaning implies a geographic area and not an ethnic group. The word which is used in Hebrew for Philistine means “land of sojourners.” This is normally interpreted as “foreigners.” I contend it is a reference to the traveling nature of the Phoenicians, i.e. “those hailing from the land of the travelers.” Philistine was most likely a deliberate Septuagint mistranslation.

13   "The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon.” Strong's number 6429.  P@lesheth - KJV Hebrew Lexicon .
“Philistia = ‘land of sojourners’ ….
the general territory on the west coast of Canaan or the entire country of Palestine ”

King James usage: Palestina (3 times), Philistia (3), Philistine (1), Palestine (1).
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 10, 2008, 11:23 PM »

  Hello Michael.
You hit a problem i,m a long time speculating about.

Are the Abram Philistines the same people as lets call them the Seapeople Philistines ???
The Bible word and the Egyptian words arent exactly the same !!!

I have the impression they arent the same!

Superflucious word similarity  says nothing  ( its 1 of the basic errors in linguistics if you discover some words in an  language looking the same  in an totally other language) .


Perhaps the Regio was the same not the People.

Like in our country the Netherlands the Frisians a tribe mentioned in Tacitus De Germania   and 1500 years later The Frisians  in Chronicles  fighting the German emperor Charles the 5 ( Habsburg ).
Quasi ( not exactly   the later Frisians had a smaller Regio ) the same Regio not the same people.

Learned co posters  Sekhmet ,Michael and others what is your opinion ?

turanclancath:)
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 11, 2008, 09:09 AM »

  Hello Michael.
You hit a problem i,m a long time speculating about.

Are the Abram Philistines the same people as lets call them the Seapeople Philistines ???
The Bible word and the Egyptian words arent exactly the same !!!

I have the impression they arent the same!

Superflucious word similarity  says nothing  ( its 1 of the basic errors in linguistics if you discover some words in an  language looking the same  in an totally other language) .


Perhaps the Regio was the same not the People.

Like in our country the Netherlands the Frisians a tribe mentioned in Tacitus De Germania   and 1500 years later The Frisians  in Chronicles  fighting the German emperor Charles the 5 ( Habsburg ).
Quasi ( not exactly   the later Frisians had a smaller Regio ) the same Regio not the same people.

Learned co posters  Sekhmet ,Michael and others what is your opinion ?

turanclancath:)

Oh, oh thinking, thinking traditionally a dangerous, for me period heeheehee I like thinking.  So please, dear sir give me some time.

Off the top of my head and traditionally I tend to support the scholars in the field.  So with regard to the Phoenicians I would have to check my Moscati, Sabatino.  (Ed.).  (1999) The Phoenicians.   Rizzoli International.
« Last Edit: Nov 11, 2008, 09:42 AM by Sekhmet » Logged

Make your ear attentive to wisdon, incline your heart to understanding; for if you cry for discernment, lift your voice for understanding; if you seek her as silver and seach for her as for hiden treasures: then you will discern the fear of the Lord and discover the knowledge of God.  For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.  Proverbs 2:2-6
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 11, 2008, 02:57 PM »

  Hello Michael.
You hit a problem i,m a long time speculating about.

Are the Abram Philistines the same people as lets call them the Seapeople Philistines ???
The Bible word and the Egyptian words arent exactly the same !!!

I have the impression they arent the same!

Superflucious word similarity  says nothing  ( its 1 of the basic errors in linguistics if you discover some words in an  language looking the same  in an totally other language) .


Perhaps the Regio was the same not the People.

Like in our country the Netherlands the Frisians a tribe mentioned in Tacitus De Germania   and 1500 years later The Frisians  in Chronicles  fighting the German emperor Charles the 5 ( Habsburg ).
Quasi ( not exactly   the later Frisians had a smaller Regio ) the same Regio not the same people.

Learned co posters  Sekhmet ,Michael and others what is your opinion ?

turanclancath:)


Yes the Philistines are the Sea Peoples.

Becaue of the Philistines Rendsberg places Abraham circa 1400 BCE. He is fairly alone in this area.

If Abraham was from 1700 BCE or before, say the Early Bronze Age when Numeria was destroyed (Gomorrah), then there can be no Philistines. It would be grossly anchronistic. One must either accept the Philistine translation as incorrect as I have done, or assume the text was an Iron Age document written and translated with prejudice of that era,as most scholars contend.

I believe the earlier references are of Phonecia, which by the way, for all of its influence, is never mentioned in the Bible per se.

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« Reply #14 on: Nov 13, 2008, 09:20 PM »

  Hello Michael.
You hit a problem i,m a long time speculating about.

Are the Abram Philistines the same people as lets call them the Seapeople Philistines ???
The Bible word and the Egyptian words arent exactly the same !!!

I have the impression they arent the same!

Superflucious word similarity  says nothing  ( its 1 of the basic errors in linguistics if you discover some words in an  language looking the same  in an totally other language) .


Perhaps the Regio was the same not the People.

Like in our country the Netherlands the Frisians a tribe mentioned in Tacitus De Germania   and 1500 years later The Frisians  in Chronicles  fighting the German emperor Charles the 5 ( Habsburg ).
Quasi ( not exactly   the later Frisians had a smaller Regio ) the same Regio not the same people.

Learned co posters  Sekhmet ,Michael and others what is your opinion ?

turanclancath:)

My dear sir Turanclancath since you asked for my opinion I will give it.  I not only revisited my Sabatino Moscati who was most reassuring to me.  He provided evidence of a distinct people the Phoenicians, sharing a continuous cultural background dating from Byblos’ Neolithic period to the heyday of Phoenician glory late first millennium.  I also revisited my Eastern Aegean Cycladic Island experts Phyllis Y. Forsyth, Walter L. Friedrick, and Peter Levi who is familiar with Greek history as a whole.  Then I went to my Near Eastern historical source, William H. Stiebing, Jr. and Egyptian sources including the Oxford History of Ancient Egypt (Ian Shaw Ed.).  I checked my Wachsmann, an expert in Bronze Age shipping, and trade.  I rounded this research out with some Web-surfing, just to make sure.

The result of my investigation is that the Philistines are the descendents of the Eastern Aegean Cycladic Islands including Crete, and the mainland Mycenaeans.  They first founded trading colonies from the fourth millennium on, spreading from Egypt, to Anatolia.  They began trading first emery and obsidian from the Cycladic Islands then their tin, lead, and silver in the later eras.  The Bible records, five cities of the Philistines dating to the age of Abraham where I place him based upon archaeological evidence into the early third millennium.  With the destruction of Cycladic Theran volcano, in the mid-second millennium we find the expected growth of these old colony-trading sites already in some areas major cities, Avaris, Gezer as examples, and disruption in trade.  Mycenae after the volcano, replaced the old position of the Minoans as the sustainer of the more ancient Cycladic/Minoan trading power.  Going West and East in the pursuit of beating the other great seafaring city-states of Phoenicia, Mycenae almost succeeded in this by 1300, late 18th dynasty Egypt.  For some reason by the 1200’s Mycenae falls into the Dark Age which only Egypt managed to survive.

The Phoenicians are the ancestors of the Punic people of Africa, and the non-Arab Lebanese peoples indigenous to the Phoenician shores of Lebanon.  In the mid-2nd millennium, they strike out from their native shores in Biblical Canaan northern most coastal areas.  To the middle Mediterranean and begin their colonizing there and in Northern Africa, and perhaps Spain as well.  Apparently, the Greek Mycenaeans won the European areas of Italy leaving the Phoenicians Africa and the far Western Mediterranean areas.  These mid-second millennium sites eventually in the first millennium evolved into the strongholds of the Punic people fleeing the Assyrian later Persian overlords of their native lands.

Leaving the above determinations from my experts in Greek and Phoenician history, I turned to the problem of the Sea Peoples.  Without a doubt, I believe them to be the collection of displaced peoples of Philistine origins with no real relation to the Phoenicians.  I base this on the pictorial representations saved by the Egyptians and the Mycenaean homeland.  Also, on the fact that the Egyptians under Ramese III called them the Pelest and base their ancestral home in “the north countries” i.e., Greece, and Anatolia.  Which we find the Cycladic, Minoan, and Mycenae people settling as far back as the fifth and fourth millenniums (Forsyth 1997: 13-14). 
This I believe can be further supported by comparing a contestant spelling of the Egyptian word Pelest= PLST to the Greek Peloponnese (where Mycenae was located) PLPNNS.  The word PLST comes from the Egyptians long used, by the time of the Sea Peoples of Ramese III, to writing.  While it is highly questionable if the Greeks were even using writing at this early date.  So the difference can be explained by 1) Greek language changes over time 2) Egyptian skill familiarity of the written word, and 3) cultural differences Egyptian VS Greek.

The word Pelest is where we obtain our word Philistine, (Phlstn).  The Pelest members of the Egyptian named Sea Peoples may have contained components of Canaanite Philistines, but they were most likely displaced peoples from Peloponnese, Anatolia, the Cycladic Islands, and Crete.  The Canaanite Philistines were certainly related to the other Philistines that the Egyptians called Pelest.

My original determination remains, and in my humble opinion strengthened; I checked the 18th dynasty’s geography of Palestine/ Lebanon.  By the campaigns of Tuthmose III Egypt accepted three geographical areas in the Levant, which includes the Syrian-Palestine area.  They are called by the Egyptians (I quote) Dr. D. Panagiotopoulos, in chapter 11 Foreigners in Egypt in the time of Hatshepsut and Thutmose III page 371-375 from Thutmoses III A New Biography
“.… Djahy, Remenen and Retenu.  All three have a vague meaning,
            and cannot be regarded as territories with strictly
      defined boundaries.  Their textual contexts or associations
       with specific place names suggest a considerable overlap….
         Djahy can be roughly identified with Palestine…  Remenen
     denoted Lebanon…Retenu included without doubt a large part
    of the Syrian territory…. Upper Retenu includes Palestinian localities,
  such as Hazor, Aqqo, Megiddo, Tanaach, and Joppa, indicates
     that Djahy was not a different territory but overlapped or was
             identical with the southern provinces of Retenu….”

This overlap can be symptomatic of the still mainly rural twelve tribes of Jacob in their Pre-Monarchy Period.

This tells us that well before the Sea Peoples there is an, “accepted by the Egyptians” three areas of interest in what we call the Levant, Canaan, Lebanon, Israel, Samaria, Judah, Judea, and Palestine etc, etc, etc.  If we are not careful, simply by the number of known names, we can become confused.

I see Ramese III’s settleling of the Pelest, in the coastal area of what he would have called Djahy a twofold strategy of controlling the Kingdom of Judah as mentioned in 2nd Chronicles 21: 17; while he strengthened, the remaining Philistine cities under control of Judaic Kings.  My opinion, and this is what, was asked for.

Therefore, my dear very learned gentlemen, regretfully and with real sorrow I cannot agree that the Philistines shared the same land as the Phoenicians.  They actually shared some of it, but not all.  Finally, I have to say again in my humble opinion, that the Philistines of Abraham’s era are the ancestors of the Pelest, and their fellow Sea Peoples of Ramese III’s day.

With regard to the lack of mention of Phoenicia in scripture…scripture, actually and again, shows the reality of the situation of its day of creation.  This being, that Phoenicia in the earlier millenniums were simply city-states expanding but not a nation per say, as we understand nation today.  I am sorry Michael; your position is most interesting I look forward to reading your book to understand better your full argument, sir.

My dear, Turanclancath thank you for asking me for my opinion.  Have a nice day, as to all.




Cline, Eric H. and O’Connor, David.  (Eds.).  (2006). Thutmose III A New Biography.  Michigan.
Forsyth, Phyllis Young.  (1997). Thera in the Bronze Age.  (First paperback printing).  P.  Lang.
Friedrich, Walter L. (2000).  Fire in the Sea The Santorini Volcano Natural History and the Legend of Atlantis.  (Alexander R. McBimey, trans.).  Cambridge.
Levi, Peter.  (1992).The Cultural Atlas of the World The Greek World. Stonehenge.
Moscati, Sabatino.  (Ed.).  (1999). The Phoenicians.  Rizzoli International.
Shaw, Ian.  (Ed.). (2000). The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt. Oxford.
Stiebing, Jr. William H. (2003).  Ancient Near Eastern History and Culture.  Longman.
Wachsmann, Shelley.  (1998). Seagoing ships and Seamanship in the Bronze Age Levant.  Texas A&M.

An original piece by Pjbl@aol.com  Based upon the work The Archaeological Chronology of the Bible Lands copyrighted 2000-2008.  All rights reserved.
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Make your ear attentive to wisdon, incline your heart to understanding; for if you cry for discernment, lift your voice for understanding; if you seek her as silver and seach for her as for hiden treasures: then you will discern the fear of the Lord and discover the knowledge of God.  For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.  Proverbs 2:2-6
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