United Monarchy

[solowe]

sekhmet
I apologize for intimating that you don't believe in science---though that is the way it seemed to be from your post.
I'm not sure I believe that the myths of Abraham on one hand and Moses on the other were late creations---I believe however they were not written down in static formation until a relatively late date let's say during the reign of Josiah.  Before that I suppose its my belief that what was eventually written down in static form was being transferred orally around campfires( if you will) for an unknown and perhaps unknowable length of time.

Forums of this nature are difficult places to debate science and god in the same breath.  I believe in Science like other people believe in God.  I suppose that my beliefs lend just as much to dogmatic stubborness as anybody else's believe in Religion.  I appologize in advance for this fault.
ed

[turanclancath]

Dear Forumists.
The posting  of Sekhmet about    238 iron  bars circa 1900,  captured by Sesotris  II in an Asian campaign
see D. Redford   etc page  238.

is very interesting .!

It fits   in with the famous  Beni Hasan tomb painting in the tomb of Khumhoteb   circa 1900 !!
According to different interpretations :

the Donkey   and Man  in the left  transport  either a music instrument or more problably  metal ingots  .

The so called Oxhides as we know them  for instance from the Gelydonia and Uluburun shipwrecks ( circa 1200 and circa 1300 ).

Bronze, Tin and Iron were transported ass bars or ingots or rings .

I think it are Tin ingots .
Tin was very very  rare it had to be imported from Turkey ( near Mersin ),Assyria/Mesopotamia  the Kaukasus Regio, Afghanistan  and perhaps India.

In the west of course Spain Cornwall ,Wales .
The Asyrians had real Donky caravans with Tin ingots  between  circa 1900/1750 to the international Khorum  in Kanish ( near modern Kaisary in Turkey ).

By the way Abrams Haran is on this Tin route to Kanish  !!!!

There was a Tin route.
But also to  Mari and so on. to Egypt
Around  1900 it is  very plausible this is such an  tin trading caravan  from
Canaan to Egypt.

Interesting about Tin industry in the Bronze Age in turky


Oriental Institute | MANAGING METALS

Have a nice weekend
Turanclancath

[turanclancath]

The Greek Age of Bronze - Chariots

An very interesting article about War Chariots in Greece.

turanclancath:)

[Moses]

Thanks for posting the link.
Very cool illustrations and educative article / site.

[turanclancath]

403 Forbidden

Good morning Moses.

Here is another usefull link.
Richard A Gabriel.
The military History of ancient Israel.
Its a Google book.
From page 117 on you can readit.
Pages 117 -120 are very interesting about War Chariots, Bronze and Iron arms etc.



and this 2 links  about warfare in ancient egypt especially the chariot are  also very interesting

Military Technology




The Chariot:  A Weapon that Revolutionized Egyptian Warfare  by Richard Carney

Turanclancath

[turanclancath]

  Learned Lady Sekhmet aptly !!! demonstrated  ( i agee wihh here )that

around 2500 the Egyptians had already horses  and mules and onagers and wheeleds chariots

 And chariots drawn by horses !!!And war chariots !!!

Not proven  by the mentioned Aartsma article ( I have strong critisism  I will post it )
But by here own arguments !

So if in the Holy Bible is written that Jozef got a chariot from Pharao and Jacobs
body was with a lot of  chariots as escort   transported tothe clan tomb at  Machpelah
that is correct
( the body must have been mummifyd )


But the 1 chariot isnt the other as 1 bike or car  in the 20 tees

is completely different from our modern Tour the France Bikes or Our Formula 1 race cars !

So that is the solotion in my opinion  :
 In The Hyksos time ( or the Hyksos themselves? )
was introduced the

Light, Lightening,  Leathal  !!!! war chariot  as for instance  found  in Tutanchamons  tomb.

This   type  of a kind of Formula 1 war chariot became about 1700 in use everywhere  .

Different from the older  war chariots( see the Standard of Ur ) these older chariots were heavy and slowly maximum speed about 12 kilometers an hour, but for a long long time they could hold this tempo.

soldiers could also run about 12 kilometer an hour, but not for hours and hours .

So the old type of chariot was good for the movement of the Kurgan migrations  and Indo European migrations.
And for Pharao and Jozef.

And I think for Pharao to chase behind Mozes in the reed sea.

With the fast war chariots( light and very mobile ) the Egyptians could have turned and at top speed escaping the water.
Not with the older heavy and slow type of war chariots .

And interesting  the fast light Formula 1 warchariot had a light bottom of leather straps.
and thus :
Can you imagine that the coffin of Jacob could fit in such a fragile small vehicle ( see pictures )

Google Image Search

Life in Bible Times - Other Travel:



Turanclancath

[kattey]

To Turan

What are ass bars?

[Sekhmet]

To Turan

What are ass bars?

Hi kattey, I think it is a typo doubling of the "s" in as.



My most dear Turanclancath, you are most kind in your praise for me.  However, I assert that anyone taking the time to learn from the experts can duplicate my work, if they want to.

[turanclancath]

http://www.gizagrid.com/body_egyptian_iron.html

This is an exellent article about the provenance of Iron in Egypts Old Kingdom.

Turanclancath:)

[turanclancath]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/27/archaeology-vikings-sword/print


This article about Viking swords and how brittle they could be is an eye opener i think.
After reading it you can imagine people preferred for a long long time Bronze swords.

Iron if not heated to  circa 1500 degrees  and hammered and hammered again was very brittle and would shatterer  in dealing a blow.
The iron carbon techniquewas very complicated .

So its perfectly understandable that iron was good for stabbing instruments like daggers or stabbing swords  but not for dealing blows.

So only with the complicated smelting technique high quality steel could be produced.

turanclancath