data for potential tectonic collapse of Noahs flood

[Elijah]

some figures of my self template
during the 74 days were not filled in;
they had the wrong figures from columns
higher up in the chart. Do correct your copy if
you have one.
New chart using 40 feet of rain as an additional
fresh water pressure (lighter than salt water pressure
which 33 feet = 14.5 pounds).
See chart; it now totals up.

[eccles]

I have just joined this Forum and have read Elijah's posts. Any Scientist would debunk the biblical account of the "Flood" as pure fiction. Any Naval Architect will prove to you that no ship of that size built of timber would survive even medium sized waves.

The tale of the "Flood" was based on the annual flooding of the Tigris-Euphrates valleys. and possible the annual Inundation of the Nile. an occurence that was vital to Egyptian agriculture.

The Torah was not written before about 700BCE and the author/s are unknown. If a God wrote it he certainly made a mess of it with all the contradictions. Was it 2 of each animal, or 7? How did Noah collect Kangaroos and Koalas? Australia was unknown then.

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[Elijah]

I am happy you joined, (do add your information you wish to discuss). I will say that I admire the new and strange things other current members post here (that I have never heard before) rather than someone new post the already world-known accepted NORM claimed to be the theories that MUST be accepted as OUR cultural answer ... it doesnt speak for Turkey or Greece or Italy... just USA power of schools. I will try not to think you just want the whole forum to debunk me for not being that norm to you.

Any Scientist would debunk the biblical account of the "Flood" as pure fiction. Any Naval Architect will prove to you that no ship of that size built of timber would survive even medium sized waves.

The word ANY is not true for scientists. Many scientists do study a possible vessel. No architect can debunk a vessel that he does not have the specs on. Simple truth. Christian faith is written in the Bible stating they now died in our next destruction because they deny there was a past Flood destruction. Debunk it if you wish, but the word ANY scientist is not true; because that says, once a scientist displays how it was built, then you de-credit him as being a scientist. In short, you do with your power of scientist school (the absolute control and smashing) what you knock the Catholic Church as wrong for for doing to Galileo. This is not science, it is payback to churches.
     I have been to Ararat and talked to a mountain guide resident who says that a wooden vessel or structure is up there at 10,000 feet. No one knows, what it is, or how it got there. This means nothing to you. You do not understand that the story of Cain and Abel reflects WAR between Adam and Eve, and that Cain killed Abel because the family including brothers and sisters perceived Abel's fire as a more productive discovery predicted on animal flesh versus Cain's burning food. The smell of the sheep did not kill without its wool burned. But Cain did kill because he was tired of being wrong. So too, we have those right, and those wrong, to this day, and it means money, with who or which they follow. People are killed over it, or they die from false scientific information as doctors who now argue over Michael's body and his meds.

The Torah was not written before about 700BCE and the author/s are unknown. If a God wrote it he certainly made a mess of it with all the contradictions. Was it 2 of each animal, or 7? How did Noah collect Kangaroos and Koalas? Australia was unknown then.

YOU say when it was written, and you say THEY know, and ALL know. But before you and they came along, those before you all said it was written by Moses at exodus out of Egypt. You say animals all walk up to Noah because it says Jehovah brought them; but Jehovah brought ME information from the internet, and that doesnt mean others did not post it, it does not mean that I didnt Google it, and so with Noah this being brought to him does not mean he didnt go get them. It means all that he brought into the ark came to be in his hands, brought to him. If I go to Australia then I have no doubt Jehovah will bring a kangaroo to me too. It has nothing to do with you claiming the kangaroo will seek me out, and yet animals do seek out smells and do investigate. Yes animals are brought to man all the time. Moses says that Satan says you cannot eat of all trees in the garden, just as Satan says that Day 3 was total dark while plants grew, just as Satan says there were 7 pair not 7. By the way, the 3 pair are because they are animals to be bred for killing for clothing and as product as was done before the Flood. Number 7 was for immediate use, sacrifice for clothing and if need be for the first time sacrificed for food.

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[eccles]

Elija,
 I would also like to know if you have any formal qualifications is this subject. I am not claiming that formal qualifications are necessary. I do not have any.
From where are you getting your information and why is it in conflict with currect scientific knowledge. As I said earlier, there is NO WAY a ship of the size of "Noah's Ark" built of timber can be seaworthy.

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[Elijah]

If you knew scripture you would understand that because Eve had no connection with Adam, then Abel had no connection with Cain, and Jacob Israel had no connection with Esau. The hate within a family is said to null the whole family of any worth. Would you agree or not agree. I make no decision there but rather ask why is that everyone's issue to attempt connections. Is your connection to blacks or gays or charieties or churches, is it relevent, can I return such questions at you?

If when you take THE stand in court, if you speak truth then you are a true witness, and if you speak lies that you think are true, then you are not a true witness. Thus Esau and Jacob in the same family. I thnk it not matter that John was cousin to Jesus. That only made him aware that Mary beleived her pregnancy was very strange. I have no doubt there were many Jews who murmured that baby was born 6 months after marriage. I am not here to clarify mumurings. Answers to questions are not for you but for people who do not like you murmuring about me. The intent in their heart differs. This is why JWs do still use the words evil and wicked and the world hates those words. But you do not see in what way Judas was evil. It was all about petty payback.

I would like to value this forum for posting information and weighing knowledge, yet people trat newsgroups and bulletins and forums as if they are chat windows and it amazes me that all our mega space around the world is filled with all this permanently saved by Google. Such a waste. And I do not blame moderators as if they should excercise power to delete it, rather I blame those who post who were not taught to write things of value rather than remarks like Youre A F-n idiot, etc. I myself would rather have a post altered with ***** over someones name or bad word, than have my whole post removed. A censor is better than a removal.

All my knolwledge is from schools; but not by paying teachers, it was from going to tech school libraries and univeristy libraries and college libraries where they have books that public libraries dont. In this way I understand how churches or schools have kept the rich fat food of books and given poor Lazarus only the scraps they release to see centuries later. This is why the future resurrection tortures them because it will reveal that everyone for 4400 years since the Flood had the power and knowledge to save the 6 billion people today yet all die because of them. Different religions do not save the people, different governments do not save the people, the inventions of science sold by commerce will not save the people, but one little church who says we are willing to die for the few to live because those few will have our great voice, the power to resurrect all dead back to life, which will torture them all with the joy of truth, all the past truth which will become our eterna; future down here on Earth.

What I share is Michael Jackson, his mom a JW and questionable and my mom a JW and questionable. Michael gave up his birthright (baptismal right) like Esau, I had mine taken away. But you cant take away that which was never on record. And divine providence caused that because they played games thinking I do not follow thru with my God if an obstacle pops up; neither my congregation nor circuit nor district baptized me. And it is debatable whether a miracle had motivated me... a condition I had from high school to age 26 had disappeared for only one week. Disappeared before the baptism and returned afterward to remind me I was hypocritical to my vows. And the doctor who removed it butchered me when I was 31 in 1988.

I have no idea what makes qualifications formal for anone of everyone on this planet. It means nothing if you tell me anyone is formal in what they know. As for your words such as timber here is a link showing what you call timber. It is Dec 2002. No credentials given to thie crazy JW and so the climber who ascended for him likewise gets no credit. So they posted it on YouTube. It has now been 7 years, what's with that atitude of this world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dQ6nRPA6jU

And here is an ice cave melted out of a glacier with a pool of water inside here in 2009 where these men all get credit because they are a team not one man. And because they are different nations, and different declarations of science. And the cave is on the outside of a massive wall of petrified wood covered with volcanic ash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaVdwSKBPXk
(at point 7:20)

I also have video footage off the net where the inside of the cave is shown at point 2:25 but none of the title words show up in a Google search to give you a link.

[eccles]

Elijah,
When I joined this Forum one of the first things I did was to ask a question to find out where I stand.

Here is the question and the answer from the Admin:

Am I welcome here? I ask this so I know where I stand before I post anything. Although I am Atheist I never "preach" to Christians. I find there is a strong attitude against Atheists in the USA, something we do not have in Australia. I am genuinely interested in Archaeology, but have not found any evidence to prove much of the Bible to be fact. Oh Yes, I have read the Bible.
 
 

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      Re: Are Atheists welcome here?
« Reply #1 on: Jul 23, 2009, 05:13 AM »   

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1. This is not a "faith" forum...it's an archaeology forum...dedicated to the archaeology of the near/middle east...the lands of the Bible.

IT IS NOT A FAITH FORUM, Elijah, So why have you given me a Sermon? I must point out that, in Australia the JWs are not liked for their continual knocking at doors. I have made it very clear in writing to them that I do not want them near me.

In the rules of this Forum I seem to remember that preaching is not wanted here. If you want to preach, confine it to your Kingdom Hall.

I certainly have not joined here to cause trouble. I just want to discuss Biblical Archaeology from the point of view pure Science not the fables in the bible. If you do not like what I say, then I challenge you to report me to the Administrators.

 
 
 

[eccles]

Elijah,

Why must you write such verbose replies?

[Elijah]

The ark beams of the bottom ripped off the ark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dQ6nRPA6jU

This is the lowest elevation of any part of the ark since it broke apart in 1840 AD. The upper three stories that those bottom ripped off of, are up hill at higher elevation. IN fact the dispute on how it passed over a ridge once covered by glacier, but now no longer covered by glacier, this ridges separates the two making it difficult to believe the piece passed over it.

Is this less verbose.
But sorry there is always more to say.
I do not stand with Creationsists, a water vapor canopy increases another 14.5 pounds of pressure with 40 feet of fresh water. (I have no exact figure, but with salt in the water it is 33 feet and even then does it not depend on how much salinity.) This means that when the canopy fell that the water of the canopy isnt what flooded the whole world but rather the submersion into the ocean did it, and this is facts evolution includes that all our land has gone submerged in ocean. Simply put how do you or they equate the their two claimed theories, if all continents have pushed away from a Pangea how many millions of years duration was this separating occuring in? Now add to that the fact that the layers of the continents do show submersion admitted by them. Perhaps not one year, or the whole Earth but in rpeated layers of sandstone and ocean fossils. So the question is while Pangea is separating into pieces, which of these pieces are going under water to become shallow oceans and others deep oceans. That timeline has never been constructed in the same way they draw animal trees for human evolution. The simple fact exists all land has gone under water again and again and again. I propose that this is by asteroid impact and that Noah's flood shows every indication in religion the beleif of the same concept namely fire and /or water by falling star, and a fear of the next one.

So simply I state, Genesis says impact precedes collapse into ocean by 7 days, the land falls for 5 months (150 days) and takes 8 months to rise back up. This means that water has never been nor ever will be higher than 2 miles, (current ocean). Which Ararat is from base to peak. And it also says air pressure at mountain peaks all depends on whether anything returns as a layer upon the top of the atmosphere.
It is merely applying science of the Flood (not creationsists) and beleiving that pattern is true for our future. It guarantees current highest mountains cannot go under. (Thats the title of this thread)

[eccles]

I do not believe it. Timber eh? from Noah's Ark?  I have seen these kind of videos before. Has the "timber" been analyzed and carbon dated? Even if it were timber how do you know it is from a ship and that it is Noah's Ark?

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[Elijah]

The known mountain climber who was there admits he couldnt touch the wood because the glacier was cracked a long distance for 6 feet in front of it.

At 10,000 feet,  who can haul stone-petrified wood up because those tibers are easily 4x 6s.

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[eccles]

If you could not touch that 'timber' how do you know it is timber? And I ask again, how could anyone know it came from "Noah's Ark".

Remember the Shroud of Turin, now proved to be fake and accepted by the Vatican as a fake. Suppose the carbon dating showed it came from the era of 33BCE that still would not prove it to be the Shroud of Jesus.  If the stains were blood, DNA testing could not prove it unless we had DNA from Jesus mother or siblings.

You mention the ossuary of James, brother of Jesus. Now I recently bought the DVD "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" which blows the authenticity of it sky high.

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[Elijah]

Perhaps for your analogy you meant even if it were 33 AD. But since you said 33 BCE you actually bring up a very valid point, namely it is not so much the value that it is proven not to be, but the value it is proven to be. The Shroud is not a fake, carbon-14 proves that. A fake would date as 1990 AD. The shroud dates as 1260 AD which makes it an artifact of value. Catholic things in 1260 AD were created to claim they fulfilled 1260 years of Jesus predicted by Daniel beofre 538 BC. Yes it is a fake or sham from 1260 AD, but when we find something Mayan like Palenque's sarcophagus lid do we give it the value of the 682 AD that it is; or are we busy pointing out how it was a Mayan sham (a fake 6000 years; a fake 2256 years before Mayan Flood, and a fake 3744 years after Mayan Flood). Are we busy pointing out the king is a fake christ, a fake king of kings depicted as pulled to heaven by the cross (of Mars) with the Quetzal firebird Phoenix (Venus). No, we are not busy slamming their religious beliefs and how since 100 BC they twisted the genesis ( i mean our genesis not the book Moses wrote, though they are the same genesis). The point is we value the date it is 682 AD (52 years after he is declared world king of kings). BUT therefore that also applies to the shroud in 1260 BC. It may be a Jesus sham fake fraud etc but it is still a 750 year old  good fraud for the times. That makes it a relc and an artifact. Another example, even if all Mormonism is a fake, its american history from Joseph Smith forward is still historic artifact.

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[eccles]

Funny you mention the Maya. I can't figure out why. I have a copy of the Popul Vuh. Interesting how the gods made three attempts to create humans, destroying their first two attempts. Of course we all know it is a myth, like the Book of Genesis.

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[Elijah]

No argument; my discussion isnt with you, nor for you, but for anyone who should happen to read your material attacking, and provide an answer for those people.

WE IN THIS FORUM do not presume everything you label as myth is myth, and nor do we make claims that we the world all know this is myth and that is myth.

Spinden placed the Epoch at 3374 BC because it is indeed a different epoch. The Flood is presumed by Maya and all nonJew nations as year 2256, but before that year 2256 the man Peleg Mesanipada the founder of Ur died in year 1996 which is 260 years earlier. (The real Flood was year 1656 so that 2256 is 600 after, and Peleg dies 340 after that Flood.)
The point is Peleg's death is referred to in all cultures not just as confusion but also as an end of the world, everyone was dying 700 years younger than Noah their father, our father. Thus the end of the world by the gods does exist 260 years before year 2256. Any culture who thinks 2256 is the Flood (such as 3114 BC) is going to think this end of the world longevity was 260 years before their end of the world by Flood. So it all supports the degrading of the true story as generations spred it down.

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[eccles]

This topic does not seem to be inundated with replies from many other members.