data for potential tectonic collapse of Noahs flood

[Elijah]

by Elijah as correspondent in Yerevan Armenia with WatchTower
(copy the text and then tab as the jpg)

CONTINENTAL COLLAPSE RATE
Scale =  79 ft per day   = 24.3 m   = 52.6 cubits
   790 ft per decade   = 243 m   = 526 cubits
Bold in Genesis record
   
2370 BC         Plain        Ararat            
Julian   Gregorian   meters   feet   feet   meters   cubits
Nov 20   =Oct 31   252   820   11,820   3636   7880   impact Yucatan; American Western 40 days rain & mantle meltdown
Nov 27   =Nov  7   252   820   11,820   3636   7880   Asian Eastern 40 days rain & continental collapse
Dec  7   =Nov 17       9       30   11,030   3393   7353
Dec 17   =Nov 27   - 234   - 760   10,240   3150   6827
Dec 27   =Dec  7   - 477   -1550     9450   2907   6301
Jan   6   =Dec 17   - 720   -2340     8660   2664   5774   Mount Ararat when rain ceases if fully developed
Jan 16   =Dec 27   - 963   -3130     7870   2421   5248
Jan 26   =Jan  6   -1206   -3920     7080   2178   4722
Feb  5   =Jan 16   -1449   -4710     6290   1935   4195
Feb 15   =Jan 26   -1692   -5500     5500   1692   3669
Feb 25   =Feb  5   -1935   -6290     4710   1449   3143
Mar  4   =Feb 15   -2178   -7080     3920   1206   2616
Mar 14   =Feb 25   -2421   -7870     3130     963   2090
Mar 24   =Mar  4   -2664   -8660     2340     720   1564
Apr  5   =Mar 14   -2907   -9450     1550     478   1037
Apr 15   =Mar 24   -3150   -10,240       760     235     511
Apr 25   =Apr  5   -3393   -11,030   - 23  ft   - 7 m   -  15 cubits     GROUNDED on submerged peak

CONTINENTAL RATE of RISE for 74 days
Scale =  59.2 ft per day   = 18.2 m   = 39.5 cubits
     592 ft per decade   = 182 m   = 395 cubits
Julian   Gregorian   meters   feet   feet   meters   cubits
May  5   =Apr 15   -3211   -10,438     569     176     380
May 15   =Apr 25   -3029   -9846   1161     358     775
May 25   =May  5   -2847   -9254   1753     540   1170
Jun  4   =May 15   -2665   -8662   2345     722   1565   74 days continents rise 4378 ft (1347m)
Jun 14   =May 25   -2483   -8070   2937     904   1960
Jun 24   =Jun   4   -2301   -7478   3529   1086   2355
July  4   =Jun 14   -2119   -6886   4121   1268   2750
July 8   =Jun 18   -2046   -6650   4355   1340   2903   Little Ararat peak is 100m above sea level

Maximum CONTINENTAL RATE of RISE for 146 days (lesser rate extends into unknown date)
Scale =   100 ft per day   = 30.8 m   = 66.6 cubits
     1000 ft per decade   = 308 m   = 666 cubits

July 14   =Jun 24   -1930   -6277   4713
July 24   =July  4   -1850   -6000   5000
Aug  3   =July 14   -1542   -5000   6000
Aug 13   =July 24   -1234   -4000   7000
Aug 23   =Aug  3   -926   -3000   8000
Sep  2   =Aug 13   -618   -2000   9000
Sep 12   =Aug 23   -309   -1000   10,000
Sep 22   =Sep  2     0        0   11,000
Oct  2   =Sep 12   307   1000   12,000
Oct  6   =Sep 16   464   1500   12,500   calendar New Year 601 celebration of removing door  (new moon)
Oct 12   =Sep 22   614   2000   13,000
Oct 22   =Oct  2   922   3000   14,000
Nov  1   =Oct 12   1230   4000   15,000
Nov 11   =Oct 22   1538   5000   16,000
Nov 21   =Nov  1   1846   6000   16,800
Nov 24   =Nov 4   1846   6000   16,800 ft   5165 m   11,200 cubits

[Elijah]

The charted aspects of the Flood reveal that the scientific estimated 2km of water if the world were smoothed out (proper definition is if tectonic plates leveled, ocean floors up and land plateau down) exists in the base to peak 11,000 feet of Ararat which is central about 600 miles from north ocean and south ocean.
These 2km of water cannot exist as water vapor canopy whose weight at even 1km or even a mere 300 feet would crush preFlood life. Thus when the water vapor canopy is finished and gone in 40 days, the world is not yet totally flooded from the collapse of land plates into molten mantle as it is 110 days later. This is good, first because mantle flow in 40 days is more outrageous than 150 days, and further because even inundation at 40 days is 275 feet per day compared to 79 feet per day in 150 days. Drop and collapse equals tsunami that in present science of our God Jehovah destroys ships with 200 feet of water, which ships are survivable with 80 feet though a terrifying ride and perhaps broken bones to heal. It is good the ballast was half the vessell height (15 cubits) because higher would seem to easily fill the sky light which in either case seems to be open-and-closeable windows a cubit high the full length of the vessel.
This means the ark at 40 days 139 miles of the total 150 days 520 miles was yet 110 days 381 miles away from Ararat at the time the inundation falsely appeared to be global with no mountains near. Yet upon grounding it was 15 cubits (22 feet 7 meters) over Ararat whose base was that day a sea floor of 2km (11,000 feet). This rate of water is survivable, but not on foot nor by car. This is why the 7 days from asteroid fire to inundation is very important to heed. The hieroglyphic myth in Egypt of fire preceding inundation is only an analogy of this warning where the flame star Sothis (Sirius) rises on July 10 at the tropic line and 7 days later rises at Memphis 30 degree line on July 17 (both dates shifting 3 days in 2000 years to be July 13-20 which is our Gregorian July 26-Aug 2 as the date Saddam invaded after 70 days on the Kuwait border).

This pretty much gives us the force that will exist when we get hit again. I am no scientist but to provide to an atheist scientist the required info (not to fight him but) to convert him to faith and belief will in return move him to karma or spirit of Jehovah to return what we should all do. Remember Lot and wife who did not want to go to mountains but rather kept asking the messenger if Zoar would be safe; by choice they took a greater risk that could kill them. It was better to send them off to Zoar, than to stand there arguing. Not that risk is bad, Moses took risk following a cloud that parted water, and the risk of drowning them, or those who got out of the sea last. Jehovah is glorified by results, and we should seek that.

[Elijah]

So i am back after a 40-day intent, and even in my own mind i ask this question, was it cop out and failure. My having the spirit of Russell and Rutherford in me, this is an issue to many who see it as charlatan. As if a con that goes wrong, and has to grasp at wit to excuse it, rather than admit it. I keep my Lord Jesus in mind (who I choose to have said nothing wrong, and that with free speech he was not required to answer anything in a manner THEY expect to be answered). There are always those who speak to you & I with the intent to bury and kill in a suffocation of winning dialog. Some are like me and fail to have wisdom to walk away from such. Many symbolic answers came to me while in mental fast in Armenia and you must know this was the case with Russell and Rutherford too. For example, a major finger-pointing as false prophet for 1926 AD.
The Advent of coming of Christ was not a Russell concept, it is clearly an advent or Adventist. And it was based on 1874 AD not 1914. As such 100-year advent (1874) Russell saw it as 40 years present plus 960 years progressive. During the 1000 years the resurrection occurs and so Rutherford applied 70 jubilees (3499-3500) to the false Adventist chronology and gets 1926 AD. There was no physical resurrection of Abram and the buying of a house for Abram is now pointed to as stupid fools. But what is failed to see is the same lessons of people like Jacob who gets more sheep from his uncle Laban thinking it is evolution by God; or Abram who does get a son by an Egyptian, and yet by doing so he heals his wife by no longer touching her with his unclean member, and he also creates the Egyptian (Ishmael) who will torture his true son when Sarah does give birth. It is all about error being turned into good not by righteous man but by righteous God. And I knew this in going to Ararat that my God must show himself and do as he wishes not as I wish (doesnt mean i cant hate him for it, but I accept this fact of him). This doesnt mean I take trampling on, the way India takes it as destiny fate to accept (shame on the slumdog movie which shows us the real india but what has ever been done by Britain to have prevented that).
So you may feel that I have just accepted some symbolic analogy from God, rather than the expectation I casted forward that i would accomplish at Ararat, and should now admit defeat or admit it as my own error or a sin; but i bring this up now as with Jeremiah and Ezekiel who speak of the king as seeing or not seeing Babylon, as if one to be a false prophet, or two men who cant agree. When 1926 failed, Rutherford then saw it as spritual resurrection. To you this is as if he refuses to admit error and wants to symbolize it, make it invisible or spiritual. But what ever the man does in error, are you looking at what God does, because that is the lesson all the Genesis stories have. They show God as doing thru men things contrary to what they thought God was doing with them. The membership numbers of IBSA that fell in 1928, then came back up in 1931 when the name Jehovah's Witnesses was taken. What you see as an excuse to cover over the false chronology of 6000 year Adam in 1872/1874 and now resurrection 52-54 years later did in fact create an alignment that was Cambyses and Smerges banning the temple to be revived by a Darius who said God's name is on that temple and will destroy the kings who touch it. Those years are a 50th Jubilee being
523 BC-1928 AD
522 BC-1929 AD
520 BC-1931 AD
516 BC-1935 AD
515 BC-1936 AD
So of course you probably think I fit in quite well making up my excuse in my return from Ararat. But as any true scientist should say, it is not I who produced the results whether they be true results or false results. Appearance is either true or not true; or just that, an appearance and a true illusion, an illusion by God not by charlatan men. A sin is not a deliberate malice error of crime, it is to fall short and need a correction of atonement, such process is perfect and we err to think that God despises it. Watch the animals and as God created them they do the same and in doing so they show us the things that you get killed from. Death is avoidable by lesson learned, and Jehovah says to Daniel i will teach erring man by using destructions.
ELIJAH
a lessoned learned

[Elijah]

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian/T6DDJOFSRT2RB8SB0

Posted in the Christian Forum (Topix) here is someone's following words at this link; so people do care if reality fits:
Who here actually believes in the great flood and Noah's ark and all that nonsense? No offense, but you have to be pretty freaking stupid if you buy into that myth. Forget the fact that there's no geological evidence of a flood of that magnitude, and the fact that it would be physically impossible to find and then fit two of each of the 1.8 million species of animals on this planet, but let's look at the math.
It amazes me that I've never seen anyone look at it this way before. As the story goes, God made it rain for 40 days and 40 nights and created a great flood that covered the entire earth. Enough to drowned everything except fish. Our tallest mountains are 27,000 feet tall, so if you're going to flood everything, that's 27,000 feet of water. For round numbers, let's just say 24,000 is enough. If you divide 24,000 feet by 40 days, that's 600 feet of rain a day, over the entire planet. There's 24 hours in a day so that would be 25 feet of rain per hour, or 300 inches per hour. 7200 inches per day. 5 inches of rain a minute. That's one hell of a rain!

Reply: as you can see in this topic it was only 74 inches per day for 150 days, it wasn't the rain volume which totaled only whatever thickness of perfect enough water vapor canopy falling in 40 days. And so with it being land collapse it is unaffiliated with the rainbow promise of being drowned by rain globally. The rainbow only takes away the fear that 7 people asked of Noah everytime it rained. He said see that rainbow, it means it isnt up there anymore, just the clouds. Yet notice how mount everest's 29,000 feet is assumed covered by only rain from sea level to peak which would be more water above the oceans than exist in the oceans. You can lose any conversation with anyone who arranges the claimed scenerios in an absurd manner.

[Moses]

The Torah - the written word of YHWH tells us that it rained for 40 days.

It is possible that in some areas tectonic plates collapsed due to the massive amounts of water in areas surrounded by mountains etc.

[Elijah]

You misunderstand. The rain for 40 days was the loss of a shield that prevvented carbon 14 from being created and shortening all life that eats it while growing body mass. This lost shield was not 200 feet thick or it would have crushed us in the preFlood terraium greenhouse, thus water did not raise up to Ararat, but rather Ararat fell down into the ocean as with all land and all continents since the water canopy did not have this amount of water. The fact that they drifted to Ararat 570 miles is assumed to be 13-14 miles per day for 40 days, but if they arrived at Ararat in a mere 40 days to hoer over it 110 days, this would mean that for 11,000 foot Ararat from base to peak would have had 275 feet per day. This is impossible to survive in either of the two actual divine science scenerios, it could not be 275 feet of rain per day from a canopy 11,000 feet thick (nor 1000 feet nor 200), and nor could it be land collapse of 275 feet because suchg tsunamis each day would be 40 tsunamis of 275 feet. Contrast this to normal gentle rain for 40 days while land falls 74 feet each day for 150 days and hits the ark with 74 foot tsunamis. Reality as God is reality.
Thus 40 days of rain is not being denied. But truth is being revealed. The Torah says nothing about which family the Maya came from, so does your faith say therefore the Maya are not from Noah because of that. You have to to fill in what the BIble does not say, but do so without adding. This is not a contradiction. Even John said that Jesus did more than what was written down. This doesnt mean beleive all stoires of him, but it does mean what was written is sufficient, yet it doesnt mean the extra is false. The knowledge is there in the Bible and beyond the Bible but with the decision to see what is true and what is not as with Adam/Eve and Cain/Abel and Jacob/Laban etc.
Jacob heard the story of the game Joseph played and he said this is enough, my son is alive, let us go. You people all need to say the same as these truths come out.

[Elijah]

0.583mph as 14 miles per day natural drift.

14 miles per day calculated as 40 days 570 miles,
but to and fro as 14 miles per day NW
and 10 miles per day SE
then 14 miles per day NW
and 10 miles per day SE
moving 3.8 miles per day to ararat in 150 days

Hey Steve, Scott, (nephews) just now got your voicemails from a week ago, wonderful cell phone voicemail whether sprint or t-mobile;  no Scott, this visitor center you speak of about noahs ark is a fraud. The land of Ararat surounds the two mountains of Ararat so many call all those mountains as Ararat. But mount ararat is the only one at 17,000 feet
the rest are half that. Even little Ararat is bigger than
any other mountain in the area. There is also a land
of ararat which is only hilly valley in Armenia east
of the mountain and south of yerevan.
Any ways there are weird anomolies that are pointed
on both ends in the whole area and a bunch of evangelists
are saying one of these is the ark because it has iron
spikes in it. Thats where this tourist center is about 80 miles
to the south west of Ararat.
Thats for lazy people who ignore all records that
its been seen for 4000 years up there, and they dont
want to freeze to death going up there.
The glacier starts at 15,000 feet which is 5000 feet
higher than Maui where i been, and 1000 higher than
Pikes Peak i have been on in mid summer 1973.
I might take the only money i have and fly back April 1.
i mean the only money i will have comes april 1 and then
all my bills will shut me off too by going.
I could have taken a 5 hour bus north to georgia,
paid visa, and gone to turkey, paid visa, and bus
back to Ararat, but you need permit so i still risk
getting arrested.
They said the border at yerevan is guarded and the soldiers will
shoot you, though others said anyone can be bribed with money.
so i had spiritual issues that were answered.
the top of ararat at 11,000 feet was not covered with water
by continental plate collapsing those 11,000 feet down to sea level until day 150 which is 110 days after the rain stopped. The ark was only 40 days (+110) on a 150 day journey so it was not near ararat to see that mountains that high were not covered until day 150. Land kept collapsing though rain had stopped. No it is not rain that floods up-river and then raises the river after the rain stops because you are downhill from it.
Anyways, the rates are easy to see the truth.
Remember, a tsunami is a wave that destroys ships, much less to have one every hour, or every day for 40 days.
So this event did not have 700 foot tsunamis or 200 foot tsunamis day after day; rise in water will equal tsunami. You dont raise water 700 feet without getting a 700 foot tsunami. So the data is none of the following process:
not Everest 29,000 feet of 725 feet per day of rain above sea level
(nor even 725 feet collapse below sea level per day)
not Ararat 17,000 feet of 425 feet per day for 40 days
(nor even 425 feet collapse below sea level per day)
definately 11,000 foot Ararat but not 275 feet per day of rain for 40 days
(nor even 275 feet collapse below sea level per day)
thus 11,000 feet of 79 feet of collapse each day for 150 days
because water canopy is no more than 10-60 feet of water
and ark traveled 570 miles from surupak to ararat which is
3.8 miles per day, thus ocean appeared global because they
were yet 418 miles away.
(40+110=150 days; 152+418=570 miles) ? i thought 520 miles but i just read a writer who says 570 miles.
But this writer says 40 days at 13-14 mph is natural drift to Ararat in 40 days;
if so did the ark in 40 days pass up Ararat NW by 285 miles in the next 20 days toward Moscow, and then back to Ararat from return current SE by 285 miles in 40 days
and passed it 142 miles in 20 days and back to it NW 142 miles in 30 days.
It is your option to ponder whether it is 3.8 miles straight route to Ararat, or to and fro and to and from from north ocean pushing south ocean.
But if so, then how come at 40 days did they not see Ararat pass by as the rain stopped at 40 days, as already shown 275 feet of continental collapse in 40 days will destroy a ship, and so the total height of Flood was not reached
until an extended 110 days or almost the whole 150 days. This implies the drift uphill was 3.8 mph eliminating  the too and fro concept past Ararat. In fact the natural
drift of 13-14 miles per hour could easily be to and fro toward Ararat as in this manner -
drift 14 miles NW today and 10 miles SE tomorrow and 14 miles NW then 10 miles SE
until grounding on Ararat.
The waters going to and fro as Genesis says, to and from and to and from.
So the to and from continued to occur for 110 days after the rain stopped.
It is this period that 74 feet per day continued to collapse into melted mantle that flowed under land to the sea until Ararat's peak was a base to peak depth of 11,000 feet or the scientifically known 2 km of ocean. Now the plateau of all mid-continents are 6000 feet so this is the higher result of this disaster. This 6000 feet is guaranteed to go under again the next time we get hit. The height above that is unknown, but it has a maximum of 11,000 feet of water that will not be reached.
It means get to a mountain in 7 days that is above 6000 feet. If the water gets higher, you have higher to ascend, guaranteed safety above 11,000 feet or most probable safety at 8000-10,000 feet, questionable unknown safety from 6000-8000 feet. You take the risk like Lot and wife if you leave later and ascend to lower mountains where ocean could reach the top. Many mountains will be erupting too. Those who think Armageddon is only weather fail to see something has to trigger it all. This is why Jehovah to the Greeks was a pantheon of gods or all forces; he was the whole assembly not just one factor.

[Moses]

We are turning this in to theology and not archeology.

The people created in Genesis 1 are not the same as people ceated in Genesis 2.

The diferense is that people of Genesis 2 have both soul and spirit wile people of
Genesis 1 are more like the beasts of the field.

YHWH made Adam and placed him in the garden.

"Yahweh God said, 'It is not good for MAN to be alone. I will make a helpmate for him.' So from the soil Yahweh God fashioned all the wild beasts . . . These he brought to the man . . . But the man did not find a suitable helpmate from among them." (Gen. 2:18)
About this passage and its direct implication that God brought all the "wild beasts" to Adam for him to choose a helpmate from among them:


"Alas for the stupidity and blindness of men who do not perceive the mysteries of the Torah and do not know that by 'the beasts of the field' are designated the unlearned [first creation] . . . The 'beasts of the field' were like [soul-less] animals among men."

THE SERPENT [NACHASH] WAS MORE CUNNING THAN ALL THE BEASTS OF THE FIELD. (Gen. 3:1)

In other words, he was their leader, the first "man" created in Genesis 1:26 who was "fruitful and multiplied" with his female counterpart.

thus creating the "beasts of the field", or the "unlearned" and "soulless" mankind This Serpent Nachash (who walked upright "like a man"; until he was "cursed"
by God to "crawl on [his] belly and eat dust" in Genesis 3:14),

The significant difference between them being, that the second Adam received a "living soul", but Nachash (the first Adam) did not.

 
"I bless Yahweh, who is my counselor, and in the night my inmost self instructs me." (Psalms 16:7)

And it is said: 'The Lord shall be king over all the earth; on that day the Lord shall be One and his name One." (Zechariah 14:9)

[Elijah]

I do not see where physical forces of water as a rate upon the soil and earth is theology not archeology. It is a science of math with physics of water, pressure, physical laws, and you call it theology.

I disagree on a total level here because I seek to see data as it is, and not by religious tradition where men gathered and decided it for me. (Such would be as your description of Adam and beasts, but I will reply.) This is what it means to me when it says we must obey Jehovah as our ruler not men. If I am wrong correction will come in the need to atone or I die from it.
You speak in riddles and in metaphors of tradition, BUT though so many of such are wrong and bad... it is not my stand to oppose analogy and metaphorism and illustrations; my Lord himself spoke this way and Peter called it riddles and puzzles which he didnt like hearing the night Jesus died. Peter who said this will not happen to you Lord, then got tired of the riddles and felt that if it were to happen how can you tell stories at a time like this. What he failed to see was that the education program was not at close nor end until the man is dead and can't speak because freedom of speech being the sword to win the fight. So here are my stories in reply to the ones you presented here. (Myths of text on tablets are archeology too, yet who sees them as the metaphors they are of relaities such as astral positions of a global event.)

So as for Genesis then I read it as Moses would have written it. I perceive the man Moses as the way he thinks and talks with what he thinks about God. And in turn I perceive that Moses is telling us how the man Adam was thinking (as Moses sees it). In this way then I can see why he allowed polygamy, even endorsed it, not the desire to take or be given two three four wives but the marrying of every virgin by the man who has touched her, thus mulitple wives if need be, though against the moral demand of but one wife. Polygamy was evil but a lesser evil than single unwed defiled women. Men used the law of atoning for the act as an excuse to obtain more wives; oops I sinned, got another wife now. Jesus stopped it by labeling men who are not loyal to one wife as being an adulterer too.

So now if I read Genesis, then the Bible in the thinking of Moses does not say God gave an assignment to name animals or that these animals made an abnormal trip to Adam. The words refer to him experiencing the natural instinct all animals have to check out the new smell, a man. They came to him as they come to me and come to you. So too, regarding Adam, he did not look for a mate with female animals (this sounds like a try out). This is in line with Eve testing the fruit that former conclu\sion by Adam had condemned as a potential killer whether instant or accumlative. Now being that Egypt in 1513 BC was having sex with animals (clearly so since Moses writes you will not do this or you will die whether eventually by disease as the hand of God or by excommunication and pushing you out of the country or by capital punishment) it is clear then that Moses says Adam had a penis, and having such he saw all animals with a vaginal partner where as he had none. It is making clear that Adam without wife saw promise one would be created and knew this prophesy of having one must come true because all the other animals with penis have a partner. And he knew what it was used for by mere observation. Thus using or trying out any animal as a potential compatibility never crossed his mind, but rather prophesy was born. I have said if God made Adam and Steve they both would have waited for Stella and Eve. Even sharing one wife wouldn't have entered their minds when the first one was created. We make excuses for what we do, and the right way comes along, and then we are shamed by it, or I hopefully would think so.

So what Adam learned is not that animals have no soul, they do in that they do have personality, and their brains function as ours, and they are breathers of both air and spirit as we are, but the ability to learn purpose and the whys and potential destinies of all things is not in them because we are like God and they are not. For this reason they are expendable for teaching us. In line with this fact, is therefore the evidence that a partner is not sought in animal not by us nor by Adam, but rather even a child will see for himself before adolescence that animals mate. And this can be seen even if that child has yet to ever see or meet the opposite sex yet.
The animals also die so that we may not; doing so as many lessons for us. All that the animals do are lessons for us to learn. But to be lessons we must not only let them die, we must also let them live. They are expendable children of the world teaching us their masters. It is not an excuse to cage them ALL or to neuter them ALL, or to make them soley as a work force, etc. This means to avoid doing things animals do that kill them, and does not mean COPY them and be the polygamous bull killing off younger men so you can hord wives. Yet this is what angels did by reason that if they could materialize themselves with penis, and have children, then they apparently were doing what God wanted, and in sin these angels convinced themselves to be the way of animals which include the ways what not to do or you will die and cause death.

It is not good for the man to be alone; he needs his own kind to directly talk to, share his knowledge, learn from, and teach to. This could have been satisifed with a Steve, but it would not have completed the promise to bear children to create billions of men not just a second man. Thus the word is not one of sex, but of human mental needs, and then secondarily to produce not one more man but the world of men thru the process of human birth. The man saw he was without mate and needed one on two levels, or two purposes. But he found fault with her when she disagreed and she quit valuing Adam's opinion as being word of God. Clearly Adam being older than Eve is reflected in Cain being older than Abel. In this way, Abel was like Eve seeking knowledge unseen by Cain, and Cain was like Adam swearing the older knows best. The cases are the same though Adam right in the first case (a particular fruit was a risk to life) and Abel was right in the second case that fire can be good for other things... burning a dead animal will not rigidly prove to be horrid but with the wool removed and fat burned it would make your mouth water, though the thought of eating it was avoided. Jehovah was in the words and senses of every family member watching this contest the two had. And Jehovah was in the words of this family all asking Cain, where is Abel, where is he, have you seen him.
In this way Moses recognizes what led even him to kill a man.

Moses does not say the snake once had legs. He says that the snake was an awesome choice to speak to Eve with because Satan is as low as a snake without legs and he has lowered himself below the head of the woman to appear as humble or lowly as he crawls on his belly in his rotten deception to question God. In essence Satan's conversation was not with Eve but in the eyes of God and questioning God. Moses makes it clear that in all our arguments that malice hearts who do not wish a real answer are forming questions in twisted defiant ways. The evil one doesnt ask why this one tree, but rather he says so it is true you can't eat of any trees at all. Read the newsgroups and posts and you will see they claim water over a 29,000 foot Everest to prove you a fool; but they are the fool if you let them perplex you and create doubt of the Flood which was actually only 11,000 feet yet it covered all mountains. Such ones will tell you that making the sun in our atmosphere means it didnt exist before Day 4, and they will tell you how do plants grow in dark of Day 3 because these people like Satan have now deceived you into thinking without sun is no light; when in fact Day 1 gave us light from (the sun in) the heavens all created before day 1, whose solar location as source was not seen until day 4. We still always have numerous 1000s of days which are daylight without sun. So its a word game; and a game I will not play with anyone. In this way, I do not talk to Satan to argue with him as if he could be right. But I have talked to him as I would God to the air (just saying outloud), why dont you try to redeem yourself by making what is good before Armageddon rather than prove all fault with men by destroying their conduct worldwide. The problem with Satan is he would need to leave all those who became like him, and when you are cut off, you stay with the sinners who talk to you, rather than sit between the two all alone. But I am enmity, the one causing the hate between the Lamb and the snake so that war breaks out and the Lamb proves triumphant. See the Lamb the wife of Jesus whose blood takes away the sin of the world, phase two has started, phase three will close the end of the 1000 year paradise. Jehovah is putting the water canopy up. And archeology will not dig up and restore the buried world. It is said Surrupak before the Flood was rebuilt after the Flood. But the liar (Berosus) also created the claim that Babel as the first city of gods after the Flood means that Babylon was the first city of gods before the Flood. It wasnt, Eridu was. The point is that cities will be there after Armageddon as they are here from before the Flood, but we will not dig them up because our future will be more important to us, the survivors. Haha I say us as if I will survive this month; that's like beheaded John in prison thinking he will see the kingdom alive. Do we make things happen, or is it God who does and Satan who does.

[Moses]

Scientific speculation and theology.

We are not reading the same scripture.
The scripture I'm reading Moses is passing to the people what clearly YHWH is telling Moses to say.

Moses gave what he received.

I was truing to say in my earlier post how in my opinion Maya came about.

The Mormon story is also very appealing to me.

Elijah here is food for thought,

I seen and heard native indians chanting.

Did you nottice what some of their chats are?

Hey , hey, Yah , Yah , Hey , Yah etc.

They are praising YHWH.

According to Torah our solar system Sun was created on 4th day.

The light of Day 1 wasn't sun.

We will have this debates in April , May and next year to.

15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

[Elijah]

Your reasoning contrary to true science (Jehovah) is why we have Hindu and Maya, and then science throws Bible and God into the mythological Hindu, Mayan, Greek and Roman soup of ridicule.
The praise of Jehovah is no surprise. The original invention of a fixed writing system had its debate as our computer pref languages do. Basic, and Fortran, and Machine, and Binary etc are all created by people who speak english but no future scholar would know it by making any connection to computers. The same with kings of 2207 BC who declared fixed writing systems. Some prefered symbols for sound and others for whole words. What we pronounce as four letters of one word are actually four words of a sentence. YHWH referring to a repetition of what is is, what will be will be, what will be is what is, or what is then will be.
Every language has this phrase to this day; and the debate whether it means everything is fated, or karma comes back.

Do not favor Mormonism regarding Maya because all scholars of the Joseph Smith decade knew of the Mayan and Aztec similarities in Christianity and Judaism, and this is natural because before Judah and Christ there was Noah whom we all come from. This is why the Quetzal bird or fire bird as Venus is known 100 years before Jesus so that we have no reason at all to beleive the Quetzal is his return. They were looking for this return before Jesus came. That Venus is a symbol of the date the Christ comes for year 6000 and our first Christian Jews felt that Jesus being Christ proved 6000 had arrived. This as if no one is perfect enough or qualified enough to be Christ until we have reached brink of disaster. But disaster has been a growing brink since Noah's first cursing of Ham & Canaan. What is bad grows until it crashes, and what is good grows until the jealous kill it.

I have posted that the Maya use Genesis figures, they add Adams 2256 and Noahs 1344 to say Babylon is year 3600. In reality, Noah's 1344 starts 600 years before Flood 2370 BC (not at Flood 3114 BC), and Adam's 2256 ends 600 years after Flood 2370 BC (not at 3114 BC Flood). Thus year 1770 BC is Adams year 2256, not according to Maya saying it is year 3600. And Noah's 1344 is the Amizaduga's venus tablets of 1626 BC used to mark Adams 2400 based on Hamurabi's 1770 BC being Noahs year 1200. Mormons beleive in preheavenly existence. This is like the city of Ur who felt that if kings (angels /sons of God) before the Flood went back to heaven rather than drown in the Flood, that now after the Flood as human kings (sons of Noah) they were more worthy of heaven than these fallen angels, and thus beleived that short life was God taking them there. And this is what started the idea that the Christ would replace lost angels with men from earth. But because angels on earth all had previous life in heaven, we then have people whether Hindu or Mormon and even some Catholic television fairytales of people and babies in heaven waiting to be born on earth.
God is going to strike the Earth and make a water canopy, to create a green house and rapid paradise growth, to bring all dead back, and see if then they can drop all this Dungi and beleive simple scientific truth (not a reference to our scientist liars). The name Dungi (king Shulgi) is not without reason to now be bullsh-t. Just as measuring the moon named Su (Su-en means Su Lord) has changed then name Sin as moon to sin as error (1991-1943 BC) beginning with Dungi's son AmarPal becoming the AmarSin or Amar Phallus until Ur was destoryed in 1900 BC at the death of Shelah son of Arpaxad. As you can see, connections are not to lead you to these pagans as if to be truth, but to show you the pagans had truth and twisted it. David ate bread in the temple without repercussion, Jesus spoke to Satan after 40 days without practicing spiritism, Elijah dared to live with an unclean Syrian woman, etc. It is not law that matters, it is your reason and purpose that proves what is or is not Jehovah. Mistakes can turn around if we see it isnt.
But do so before you or anyone else dies from it. This is why its not easy to decide whether to ascend a mountain or not in the name of Jehovah. It is tough, just like whether to ditch your boss who tells you to stay in the world trade center. Better to trust yourself and be wrong than trust someone else when your gut feeling tells you they are definately wrong. Realize who to blame. Dont be too quick to walk off from someone who swears you will devour him and drink his blood before you ever see salvation. And I dont mean a holy day of communion; but the true holy day when the complete mass becomes the communion. The soldiers of my government and kingdom about to rule will be the only true veterans this world has known, because when governments fail to survive Armageddon, then none of their rules or 1000s of years succeeded in saving anyone. Eternal debt is due to the surviving government because it will have the ability to raise all dead. Thus they all bend knee to their knew mother and father in heaven, as the Christ-mother and Christ-child grow on earth.... the adult children raised up from death to earth become mother to more adult children raised up from death to earth, until the end when we find out who doesnt like paradise, but wants the past to come back.

[Moses]

God is going to strike the Earth
Yes there will be a day of Judgement but its not April next month.

Maybe its the maya 2012?

I don't know when its going to be. Maybe due to some righteous people in our time
it will be deferred to another time.

Jerusalem fell, no one listened to Jeremiah.

[Elijah]

That's the irony of a weather man predicting weather. Do it in the name of Jesus or the name of God or the name of Jehovah and its a definate wont be April. But do it in the name of the pagan, heart-sacrificing, warring Mayans and the 2012 AD is a maybe. I show how Mayan had truth of a 2370 BC Flood and two other dates fixed to it but they changed it to 3114 BC (and this means nothing to any one). Yet let the Maya claim this current world began with a 3114 BC Flood and the whole world is thinking the Maya has a correct 2012 AD. Not wanting a pat in the back for discovery here, but so sad that the corrupt gets one, a pat on the back. But then again we kill Jesus and set Barrabas free. Was it that way too in archeology when Father Scheill was favored for a 2067-2025 BC Hamurabi instead of the true 1792-1750 BC which existed. And how long did the truth last as firmly fixed (it is now debated 64 years this way that way, 56 years too). Is it money, or favoritsm, or racism. Who decides these great mistakes where the wrong is accepted until the truth forces its way in. And why does everyone refuse the shame and disgrace of it. And really here, its a joke, do you really think they'll burn or drown saying oh this is because we believed lies instead of truth.

[Moses]

I'm not the spokesman (Nabi - prophet)of God.

All l I was saying is that I don't know when it will happen.

But I did ended with the fall of Jerusalem for a reason.

When Jeremiah warned no one listened and told in their heart "Surely YHWH will not do this to us" but it did happened.

March 10 noting happened - well many selebrated Purim but that was it.
No claps of any economic system or any disaster.

We are warned by Yashuah that people will come of them self and not of the father and to evaluate them by the fruit.
So trying to see if there is a false prophet is actually an advise to all of us and if you love Yashuah that you do what he asks.

Instead of been preoccupied when the end and the judgement day is , simply be strong in your beleave and trust in the Lord that he will deliver you.
Do good and not evil.

The day of the Lord is set to happen in number of times and only lord knows when it will be. April 2009 could be that time.
Final word belongs to the Lord.

Amos 5:18

 18Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

 19As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

 20Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it? 

Issa 13:9

9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

 10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

 11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

 12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

 13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Zep 1:14

14The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

5That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

 16A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

 17And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

Just before 600 BCE Prophet Habakkuk prayed to the " God who in the nearing years is comming,"
Who will show mercy in spite of his wrath.
So YHWH will be done.

[Elijah]

Some people think I am so fixed about my beliefs. The past, yes, until proven wrong (not by people) but by data, and true data, not opinions already discarded. But on the notion of 10 days tribulation (in Revelation), is there potential for April 1-9. I pondered this before I flew to Armenia and today on the equinox I found this link.

http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/1/50548/

Prophecy always belongs to God YHWH and not to anyone else merely because he is the one who either causes it or can see it is going to happen as a result of their ways which will follow destined for the direction of path it goes as is known by God who can see it ahead, because he sees ahead of every path, being that everything is in view to his eyes. The power is his not because of future magic, but because its in his view as a table before him. We too can see more from satellite than without satellites.

But as for false prophesy, so many people think it means plug your ears and shun the liars. I will tell you that for sure the temple did not fall for 3 days nor in 3 days when Jesus died so that many felt he proved to be a liar. The warning is not so shallow as to mean watch what you believe; no one is without garbage they believe, all have garbage and all have mistakes. The warning is regarding following your whole life and years and months and days those who are not correct so that you waste what you have, be it your time or your money or you preaching for them instead of the one with truth. I have no followers, they give me no money, they do not get sent out to preach by me. You waste your time to even weigh whether my words are of true prophet or false prophet when everyone out there (including schools of evolution and schools of archeology and schools of science) do indeed spend days and hours and money to follow and support. Your concern is for who? for me? me alone? my life? or for those you must make sure do not follow me? Haha... as stated there is no one. I am a voice crying out and loud with a big mouth buut in the wilderness ignored. And I know it. You do need to save those and grab those away from far bigger "leaders" than I am. I am not even a Jonestown Guiana nor David Koresh of Waco Texas where the Feds killed 75, nor Heaven's gate suicide of San Diego to so much as take 24 people in my death. I am alone and my words are far more accurate than any church has been; and have always seen that you all follow groups who advocate theories and concepts, but none who have (nor ever will) advocate what i have said. I was born ignored. And speaking truth made it worse not better. Were you yourself awaiting March 10 to judge me as of God or not of God, because you had good things to say, and not you don't. Judge the prediction pro or con, not me. Because I have been right before, and I will be right again, just as you are, and others are. Don't get so heavy with it. Look up bank virus, it does exist and banks are falling, just not in one date as I claimed odds. But also as a coworker woman said to me in 2006 when I said March 10, you don't know who stepped in because of the warning and that one prevented it, which is good. In away why have a predicted disaster come true, if someone has power to stop it. But then I rather have banks fall and see suicides, than no sign of an asteroid surprise. These people do need a preceding disaster which would be mercy to them to prepare them, rather than the worst come upon them directly as asteroid without great signs of disasters to move them on their way.
You choose for yourself Mose, but facts remain archeology proves all cultures expect this end. And my faith beleives survivors who choose to survive, and do so for God Jehovah.
Still Elijah

(I agree after April 9, my scriptural interest, historic interest, archeology, and astronomy still exists; but I have no role nor purpose after that date if it just rolls by normal. Such was the case in 1997 March 24 for me. aka year 20 of Jesus Artaxerxes).
ok ok I don't need any one muttering Thank God.