Are Today's Jews Really Ancient Israel?

[Dreammama]

Interesting was the point that ethiopians have some similar genetics. It kind of supports the theory that they were Solomons love child with a black girl.>>

Maybe I was sleeping but I thought it said the Falashas were like the Christians. They are Judaic Ethiopeans, who converted to Judaism centuries ago. They are not genetically related to Bnei Israel. Ethnic Ethiopeans originate from black Africans who intermixed with an Arab tribe several millenia ago. Any genetic similarity between Jews and Ethiopeans comes from the Arab ancestors of modern-day Ethiopeans. well I have heard the theory that the Ethiopians are descended from solomon. Has a new theory disproved this?

The times article stated:
Another lineage common in the ancestral Arab-Jewish gene pool is found
among today's Ethiopians and may have reached the Middle East by men who
traveled down the Nile

I am also skeptical because if these ethiopians did in fact convert centuries ago, what caused them to convert?? Jews have not been known to preach or force conversions and the other 2 abrahamic religions that did these acts have rarely been successful to convert a nation thru peaceful means. What caused this group of ethiopians to convert??


Is there any proof that those that descended down the nile were people of arab descent and not bnei Israel?

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recette cuisine regime

[Moses]

I think the author of the book of Hebrews had it right when he called it to Hebrews and not to the Jews.

The Hebrew nation used at one time to be divided in to 2 sates, Judah and Israel.

Israel ( 10 tribes) fell first then Judah.  The Hebrews from Judah were called Jews just like people who live in Russia are called Russians.
So when they went to Babylon  exile they are called the Jews or in some stories the remanent of Jews.

We know that later they return and rebuild the temple in Jerusalem they resettle some previous Israelite cities as well, the nation always under other more powerful nation such as Persians, Greeks, Assyrians, Romans etc.

The 10 tribes of Baney Israel the Israelites are in exile wile the remaining 2 tribes and samaritans later also ebonite's etc all live in Holy land.

They are as a nation not only Jews but also Hebrews. 
Hebrews are decentness of Abraham and Sarah.  Just like ishmaelite are Arab.

With the time of second temple the religion of these Hebrew people living in Judea and Galill and other areas evolved and became to be what is called Judaism wile the exiled 10 tribes of Israel continued practice some what different form of Israelite religion based on the same scriptures of Torah.

It is written that King Solomon had many wives and concubines.
HE had children I assume by some of the wives. So he had children whose grandfather was a Pharaoh of Egypt.

As to the story of Manalek a child of Solomon and Queen of Sheba it is interesting to note that not all agree that it was the African queen but rather an Egyptian Queen from Saba. In any case what I see is the following:

Here is why I don't think the Ethiopian group you mention was not converted to Judaism.

Their customs and following of Torah Law was in a form of the pre-exile form.
They still  in the 20th century practiced Israelite / Judean form of worship that was pre Talmudic and Halahic, they didn't follow the form of Judaism that I mentioned earlier that was developed during the second temple time.

They still continued practice Passover sacrifice in a form it was practiced
before Babylonian exile of Jews.

A temple was in Egypt and then they may be fleeing to Africa to settle there
As Egypt came under attack.

Even today many that are in modern state of Israel for a long time Rabbinic Judaism refused to accept them as Jews unless they undergo a ritual baptism.
They refused as they seen similar types of baptisms perform by Christians who tried to convert them in Ethiopia.

[Moses]

test

[Sekhmet]

Interesting was the point that ethiopians have some similar genetics. It kind of supports the theory that they were Solomons love child with a black girl.>>

Maybe I was sleeping but I thought it said the Falashas were like the Christians. They are Judaic Ethiopeans, who converted to Judaism centuries ago. They are not genetically related to Bnei Israel. Ethnic Ethiopeans originate from black Africans who intermixed with an Arab tribe several millenia ago. Any genetic similarity between Jews and Ethiopeans comes from the Arab ancestors of modern-day Ethiopeans. well I have heard the theory that the Ethiopians are descended from solomon. Has a new theory disproved this?

The times article stated:
Another lineage common in the ancestral Arab-Jewish gene pool is found
among today's Ethiopians and may have reached the Middle East by men who
traveled down the Nile

I am also skeptical because if these ethiopians did in fact convert centuries ago, what caused them to convert?? Jews have not been known to preach or force conversions and the other 2 abrahamic religions that did these acts have rarely been successful to convert a nation thru peaceful means. What caused this group of ethiopians to convert??


Is there any proof that those that descended down the nile were people of arab descent and not bnei Israel?


Hello Dreammamma, and welcome since Abraham is the supposed father of both the Arab and Israel.  Your problem is?  I say supposed because to many unbelievers today say there was no Abraham. I believe there was; so I say supposed simply because the evidence of Abraham.  I have to admit is pretty slim as it stands today.

That point aside now. I found in my Ian Shaw ed. of The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt page 385.  The mention of Jewish mercenaries settled in Elephantine, the very tail end of Egypt, by the Persian King Darius II (424-405 B.C.E.)
They warred with the the Priest of Khnum and the temple of Iao (Yahweh) was destroyed.  Since Ethiopia is just a beyond a mild rapid on the Nile.  There should be a strain of bloodline found in some Ethiopians if the Word, and history has any basis in reality.

I hope this helps.
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recette cuisine regime

[Irishman]

Some yes, some no.

There is no genetic test for that.

[Elijah]

One has to realize that what is at stake here is a desire of a people to claim their Jewish genetic stock is more than Jewish but from the king himself as descendents of David. This would be so they can claim the right to lead the whole world, or hope of the savior of it being in them, etc. So fraud could easily enter in here if the Jewish genetics is from Arabic or Egypt etc. The 1800s America was filled with stories that spoke of the LOST tribe of Israel as if there is such a thing. The Bible speaks of none.

[Moses]

The bible speaks of 10 tribes of Northern kingdom Israel that were exiled.

To this day people try to identify what became of the 10 tribes, we know that Jews are from Southern kingdom of Judah that also was taken later and many went to Babylonian exile.

There also a huge number of east european jews who are decedents of Khazars.

Hebrews is proper term to children of Israel, as to King david lets not forget that Ruth his grandmother was Moavian.

[Elijah]

Ruth is of Moab the son of Lot and Lot's daughter.
I do not know what Moavian is. If you wish to take away the power of a unified land, you do not transport all the people so that their new home is all collective together. You disperse them. That puts them everywhere.

[Moses]

Ruth is of Moab the son of Lot and Lot's daughter.
I do not know what Moavian is. If you wish to take away the power of a unified land, you do not transport all the people so that their new home is all collective together. You disperse them. That puts them everywhere.

My point is that Davids grandmother was not Israelite nor she was Jewish or Hebrew.

She was of the Moab.

Yet God gave her a grandchild who was great king of Israel and a man after Gods heart.

[Elijah]

But do not forget that she was a woman of convert whose sister-in-law went back to Moab. It is certainly an important question to ask whether Lot the nephew of Abram being brothers with Haran is of the same God Jehovah or not. That issue comes up with Laban the Syrian who is brother to Rebecca the mother of Jacob. It is not Jacob who swears by Jehovah, nor demands to swear by Jehovah, but Laban who demands that Jacob swear by his own God Jehovah. Thus Laban looks like he worships jehovah, but he doesnt or he would accept the fact he was the loser in the deal; without Jacob's effort to plunder Laban by being greater. Jacob became greater by what came forth form the womb of sheep, while Laban tried to be greater by swapping his wife, and making him work additinal contracts, and reducing his wage. The games were with Laban, while Jacob attempted to prosper by applying what he thought was an absurd breeding science of Jehovah. Bottom line, Jacob says I swear by my father Isaac who you fear and is the reason you do not touch me. Jacob could see that the jehovah or science or effect protecting him was Laban's fear of Isaac.
     (This is not always true, the 10 brothers of Joseph insisted the same thing, that they were safe only while Jacob was alive, and they feared Jacob after their father died in 1711 BC... hurting Joseph to the soul that his brothers had not changed their stinking atitudes. This is why much of what I assess of conversation includes psychology or motives in what people write. For example NoTalent is 50-50 on his view of me, meaning half of what he says has a could effect on me keeping me in perspective, the other half I see as abusive, but because he makes these remarks without one word of the topic I posted. Instead it is another remark about personlaity assessment, his and mine. What one needs to see is that 90% of the gospel is about how people treat preaching and treat truth and treat economic effect due to people's words and thus result in hate or war or someone dead to stifle that truth. Yes I see totally how some feel Jesus paved the path to death. It doesnt excuse those who killed John and Jesus; and their are millions who die the same way.)

[Moses]

These are all interesting and valid points.

Yet if I recall the biblical account correctly, only one linage of Abraham that is via hi son Itshak and later by Jacob inherits the promised land.

Children of Ishmael are also Abraham's seed.

Now there are very specific instructions that God gave Israelites regarding the surrounding nations, including Moab.

The conversion to Israelite Jehovah  religion no longer required in order to be part of the covenant as New Covenant made the barrier obsolete.
Gentiles and Jews have now one spirit.

[Elijah]

Before you speak of Ishmael as Abrams seed. It is because Ishmael like Esau and like Adaam's son Cain feel as firtborn it is theirs. Ishmael had 12 sons no doubt as he wanted. He didnt quit until he had them, and at 12 he felt he fulfilled what Abram expected. If he did this by one wife, praise him, because Laban deceived Jacob into 4 wives.
     BUT here is the clincher, upon the death of first wife Sarai at 127 when he was 137, his 37-year old son needs a wife at 40, and then 140-year old Abram marries Keturah and has 6 sonse. They are his seed, but there is no mention of him teaching them what he taught Ishmael, and then at 14 taught Isaac, and then at 19 threw Egyptian Ishmael out as a taunter and as a secondary son of the second wife.
     His efforts have no historic record of any one individual of these six sons as prodicing 12 houses of heaven ruling over the earth. Thus Abram's faith was fulfilled in his eyes with Isaac getting married at 40 when Abram was 140.
     No intent of me to describe Jehovah as if to be our slave or servant, or to merely make him a power with no personality to make choices, but to help explain how THIS PERSON Jehovah is toward us I phrase it this way:  Moses taught Joshua how to see Jehovah, and how to use Jehovah to create a people for Jehovah who live by Jehovah according to Jehovah and obtain a land to practice what is Jehovah. He taught Joshua how to conquer Canaan going in, ans he himself had conquered Egypt in going out, taking what they were welcome to as they left.
     This is why the world looks at 20/20 hindsight and then thinks they got screwed over, that it was not the Creator of the world behind these people. Jesus uses these same tactics in creating a growing church and then luring the world to kill him believing in the results to come.
     This is why Jew and Greek and world are all but one if and only if they do as Jesus did. Not harming Moab is only a tribute of respect to Lot. What good does it do to save a man from Sodom and then destroy all his children. But mercy is limited. Any Jew dare not say God will not harm us, we can do as we wish because he is contracted to bless us not harm us. Nor can the Christians say that of Jesus. Paul is clear in saying the Christian is a branch that can be cut off the tree of God just like the Jews were. Yes in the last hour, theory would seem to say God will not fail, he can replace Jesus if Jesus sinned an hour before death, and he can replace the Church now if it be they fail an hour before destruction. My faith however, does not extend this far, because I dare ask, how can he, in what way. And I worry of the failure. Perhaps my worry is what brings my own failures that do repeat ..... as mom has haunted me with, havent you learned yet. If you know these things happy are you if you do them.

50/50
So happy I can rejoic in things I know that no one in the world knows. So sad and at the bottom of depression because I see my failures are my own choice and doing... frequently quitting, or worse, deciding to defile myself and maybe that'll kill me.... seems to make the world happy... drugs sex party play. (Ok dont let your imagination put me that deep in the mud, just admitting I have gone there thinking like Jonah I could escape what I know; and the sad thing is I knew that is what I was doing, knew it wouldnt work, and did it anyways, and it is true, when you do soemthing horrid you never did before, it is difficult not to let someone come in your life and do it again as you have done before. And I am reminded there is no forgiveness for repetition of sin.)

[Moses]

YOu have interesting insight but in my view unbiblical.
Some how I think you are deceived or not interpreting correctly the message you are getting.

I can be wrong, but I without telling you what to do just suggest that you run your interpretation of things you get by written word.
Si if contradicts what Jehovah is communication in the scripture.
Unless you se your realizations above the scripture, I don't say you do just
asking do you?

[Elijah]

You have interesting insight; but in my view, unbiblical.
Some how I think you are deceived, or not interpreting correctly the message you are getting.

I can be wrong, but I (without telling you what to do) just suggest, that you run your interpretation of things you get by written word.
See if contradicts what Jehovah is communication in the scripture.
Unless you see your realizations above the scripture, I don't say you do, just
asking do you?

I hate to think my way of talking is contagious. I had to read this 5 times.

[Irishman]

Keep in mind that the "Jewish" nymic originates with "Judahite", or of the tribe of Judah.

It only deals with one tribe of twelve. Ancient Israel was much more than that.